Author Topic: Hello friends  (Read 4973 times)

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motoman465

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Hello friends
« on: November 06, 2006, 02:08:40 PM »
Hello friends,


I just stumbled across a very interesting site.


http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/default.asp


My interest in RE started when a local municipality erected several

large wind turbines.  I really thought it was cool!  I have since

learned much...with even more yet to be learned.  One of the horrifying

things I learned more about is Global Warming.  The idea of my neices

and nephews not being able to enjoy the same earth that I enjoy, quite

frankly scares the s*#t out of me!  This is a real problem that we must

act upon!  Reading through these forums I realize that their is hope.

For whatever reason you got into producing your own power or living

greener, you are making a difference!  I sincerely thank and applaud

each and every one of you!  Although great strides have been taken, we

need to do more!  I urge, no I beg, each and every one of you to go to

the above website and join!  Get involved with spreading the word about

Global Warming!  Remember, strength lies in numbers...and together we

can make a difference!  THANK YOU!


Todd

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 02:08:40 PM by (unknown) »

stop4stuff

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2006, 04:47:30 PM »
lol...


when did the last ice age end?

what happens when the atlantic conveyor stops due to global warming?

how much polution is thrown up into the atmosphere by volcanoes?

how many ppl create how much polution in china & india?


can 500000 (or even a million or 2) out of 8000000000 (8 billion) ppl really make a difference?

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 04:47:30 PM by stop4stuff »

cyplesma

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2006, 04:52:29 PM »
The whole water raising models I think are kinda funny.


I always wonder if they include the ice that's floating on the water.


 I do believe any ground based ice will add to the water table and if the ice at the poles is resting on bottom of the ocean I certainly can accept as water raising ice. but remember those ice cubes in your drinks that are not resting on the bottom of the glass don't raise the liquid's level.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 04:52:29 PM by cyplesma »

DaveW

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2006, 05:17:08 PM »
  Didn't we see this very same post just a few days ago?  And sort of the same comments?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 05:17:08 PM by DaveW »

stop4stuff

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2006, 06:08:28 PM »
same post some 14 or so hours ago under rants... it diskapeerd
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 06:08:28 PM by stop4stuff »

DanB

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2006, 06:59:08 PM »
It was in 'rants' but I axed it and told him it would be fine to post in diaries.   Perhaps I'll post more about my thoughts on this topic later...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 06:59:08 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

Titantornado

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2006, 07:33:09 PM »
What's everyone got against global warming?  Nobody ever talks about the benefits.


  1. Longer growing seasons
  2. More CO2 for the vegetation
  3. Melting icecaps providing more available water for vegetation
  4. Less fossil fuels required for heating (granted, A/C demands will increase)
  5. More people die or suffer sickness when it's cold versus warm.


Actually, while typing this, I paused to do a Google search on "benefits of global warming" and was surprised that quite a bit of stuff came up on the subject.  Funny, you never here about these positive points in the news or documentries.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 07:33:09 PM by Titantornado »

motoman465

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2006, 08:38:03 PM »
It is very interesting to read everyone's opinions.  This is just my opinion and I may very well be wrong...I usually am(just ask my g/f...LOL).    However, would it hurt anything to take positive steps to help clean up the planet.  Even if this is all a conspiracy(or whatever you want to call it)what would it hurt to work on having cleaner cars and powerplants.  At the very least it would make our planet cleaner and reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.  Basically, I am not here to push my opinions and beliefs on everyone.  I am just trying to make a difference with something I feel passionate about!  Thanks for listening and offering differing view points.


Todd

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 08:38:03 PM by motoman465 »

Jerry

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2006, 10:08:05 PM »
OH weres AL Gore when you need him LOL.


                         JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 10:08:05 PM by Jerry »

willib

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2006, 10:15:01 PM »
i agree on points 1& 2

here is a useless factoid

in 1816 the "year without a summer" was caused by one volcano

lots of smoke and dust & ash in the air, for a couple years after also.

just something else to worry about i suppose, and the ensueing deep freeze

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 10:15:01 PM by willib »
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scottsAI

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2006, 10:22:40 PM »
Hello motoman465,


Thinking like that got us into trouble in the first place.

Think about what I or Anybody tells you. If the facts do not make since then they probably don't.


what would it hurt to work on having cleaner cars and powerplants.

So much focus is put on cars. You see in movies people dying of carbon monoxide poisoning in garages with the car running. Well you can go breath the exhaust of a car today, you might pass out due to lack of oxygen (very little there) but you will NOT die from CO poisoning.

Hybrid vehicle he answer? NO, normal vehicles exist with as good or better mileage, for a similar vehicle.

Cleaner powerplants? Do we really want that? We try to build a wind turbine and some bleeding heart group stops them due to some bird... Claim wind turbines kill birds, no data to show anything, we all know a spinning blade must kill birds. We are like back in Aristotle's times, when we could just observe the facts and know the 5 lb lead ball would fall faster than a 2 lb lead ball. If birds were that stupid they would all be gone.


Build more hydro power, what could be more cleaner? Yet, the same groups stop the development, it's changing the environment that's a bad thing.


At the very least it would make our planet cleaner and reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.

Ok, R12 was baned due to some bad science, replaced with R134a. Did you know the replacement R134a is 10% less efficient than the R12 systems?? What is better with that? DOW, made a lot of money from the patent on the R134a, So costly companies are looking for a replacement. Big money.


I am just trying to make a difference with something I feel passionate about!

Same here, I want you to know what the real effects are from your passion. That is mine.

Others have given you things to think about. Look into them. Volcano's were mentioned:

Philippines volcano dumped more pollution crap into the atmosphere in a couple weeks than man has dumped in our entire existence. Fact. We got Pink sun sets. Weather effects, we are still here. This one event should be a wake up call to everybody that has bought into the global warming BS. Yet, more jump on the band wagon after it. Did man cause the volcano? Did the earth die?


Global warming issue has a deadly agenda called big money. CA just passed new laws about it, first estimates are in the billions of dollars to pay for it. Guess where that money comes from. YOU. Any cost to a business gets passed to you the consumer. Where does government money come from, why you again, the people have deep pockets are willing to pay for everything for a good cause.

Not going to help you get a job that is chased over seas, because of all the laws making it to expensive to have a business in the USA.


I hope my passion was interesting, hope to open your eyes to the lies you have been given.

I would be very willing to show you the facts about anything GW tells you.

Let you decide to engage your brain and enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 10:22:40 PM by scottsAI »

motoman465

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2006, 10:53:34 PM »
Scott,


Thanks for your comments.  After I got home from work and checked all the responses, I did in fact do some further research.  So, I am not just buying into the "BS"!  I did do a search on the benefits of Global Warming.  Some very convincing arguments for the benefits of it, just as there are convincing arguments against the benefits.  I am trying to keep an open mind and listen to what others have to say about it.  Seems like some on this board made up their minds and that is that.  Like I said previously, I could be wrong.  Then again, I might not be.  If it turns out that my opinions are wrong I will take the humiliation for being wrong, but not for standing up for what I believe.  Some of what I read tonight after looking at the other side of the issue have made me think a little deeper.  Some just don't seem to make sense so I would love to hear different insights.  That is why I love reading your comments.  I am only one man with what may turn out to be a skewed outlook on some things.  Debate is a good thing, as long as it does not turn into a Lynch Mob.  So, once again, I really enjoy hearing from everyone and look forward to learning more about BOTH sides of the issues.  Thank you!


Todd

« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 10:53:34 PM by motoman465 »

Flying Z

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2006, 03:54:27 AM »
Who needs him?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 03:54:27 AM by Flying Z »

Titantornado

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2006, 05:16:47 AM »
Hey, don't get me wrong.  I'm all for solutions to limiting or stopping the use of fossil fuels, but not for global warming causes.  Rather, to do away the dependency we have for it.  This planet has all the energy it needs from RE, if we just take the steps to use it.  Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier, it's often the tree-hugger groups who stand in it's path. Their very cause is their own undoing.


Also mentioned earlier, you got China, who's coming into the industrial revolution.  They are where we (the USA) were 100 years ago.  So you'll still have the pollution pumps going in other countries.  Global warming will continue. The planet will evolve and adapt. (as it's always has) Change is inevitable.  People will adapt or die.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 05:16:47 AM by Titantornado »

DanB

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2006, 06:51:33 AM »
Perhaps I'm confused, but I agree with motoman here.  I believe this is the most important environmental issue we've yet to face.  There are lots of uncertainties but there are also some fairly indisputable facts.


Earth is about 8000 miles in diameter.  The atmosphere (at least most of it.. the part we can breath in) is about 3 miles thick.  If the Earth were an onion about 4" in diameter - the atmosphere would be less than the thickness of 1 layer of skin.  There's not very much of it - it's very fragile and humans are messing with it big time.


CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a 'green house gas' which is created by the burning of carbon based fuels.  Green house gasses serve to trap heat at the surface of Earth.  Some is good, too much is a problem.  There are other green house gasses which are important but for the sake of this guide we'll focus on CO2 because it is the most significant contributor to global warming - it stays in the atmosphere for centuries - so the consequences of todays actions will be with the Earth for a long time to come.   Present CO2  levels in the atmosphere are rapidly approaching 400 ppm.  In the last 100 years, CO2 levels have increased over 50%.  Most of the increase has been in the last 30 years.  The current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is higher than it's been in over 600,000 years.  Without extreme measures it will most likely be around 500ppm in about 40 years.


About 80% of the worlds current energy is produced by fossil fuels.  Unlike wood, or other renewable bio fuels, the use of fossil fuel unlocks carbon which has been locked up underground for millions of years, and releases it into the atmosphere.


Almost all of the 20 hottest years on record have occurred within the last 30 years.


The hottest years on record since the mid 1800's: 1998, 2002, 2003, 2001, and 1997.


US residents on average use about 10 times the energy as the average human, and about twice the energy that the average European resident consumes.  The United States contains less than 5% of the worlds population and consumes approximately 25% of the worlds energy.


During the last century the Earth has warmed  about 1 deg F,  most of this has happened in the last 30 years.   The impact is less at the equator and more extreme towards the poles.  Average temperatures have increased about 5 deg on average in Alaska, Western Canada, and in parts of Russia over the last 50 years.


There is a direct correlation between CO2 levels in the atmosphere and global temperature.  Almost all climatologists agree that this has  and will continue to have an impact on the worlds climate.


Here is a list of 'known facts' which I've taken off the EPA's website (http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/):



  • Human activities are changing the composition of Earth's atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times are well-documented and understood.
  • The atmospheric buildup of CO2 (carbon dioxide) and other greenhouse gasses is largely the result of human activities, mainly the burning of fossil fuels.
  • A warming trend of about 0.7 to 1.5°F occurred during the 20th century. Warming occurred in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, and over the oceans.
  • The major greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries. It is therefore virtually certain that atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases will continue to rise over the next few decades.
  • Increasing greenhouse gas concentrations tend to warm the planet.


You can find similar information on websites run by Chevron, and British Petroleum.  I think it's a sign that we should take this seriously when we see major oil companies getting concerned.


There have been studies that support an opposing point of view and there are some uncertainties.  There are also some fairly indisputable facts.  As important as the issue is, I don't think we should wait for 'more data', the time to act is now.  Perhaps the nay-sayers are correct - perhaps we can continue business as usual, continue to burn up the remaining fossil fuels in the earth, dump tons of CO2 into the atmosphere daily and there will be no consequences.  I doubt this very much and I don't think the future of the Earth is the sort of thing we should be gambling with.  Even if we take extreme measures now, it's probably too late to prevent significant change.  If we don't act now we can probably expect catastrophic climate change.  The bottom line is that our lifestyle in the '1st world' and our reliance on fossil fuels as our primary energy source is unsustainable.  Currently developing nations look at the US and Europe as an example and they strive to achieve our 'standard of living'.  This is scary stuff - if everyone in China and India were to do as we do the impact would be profound.  So we need to set an example and we should not wait for our Government to do this for us.  I think we need to act on an individual basis and the time is now.


I think it's ashame that this seems to have become a 'political' issue.  I think that  history will look back upon us as pretty foolish, because the stakes are high, the information is available  - lots of facts are known - yet so many people prefer to remain in denial.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 06:51:33 AM by DanB »
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motoman465

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2006, 07:14:57 AM »
Thanks Dan!  You are so much more well-spoken than I am.  In response to Scott's post last night, I stayed up past my bedtime(and believe me I need the beauty rest..LOL)researching volcanic eruptions and their impact on the environment.  Since I am not good at paraphrasing I will include a link to a very good(at least in my opinion)site about it.


http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/climate_effects.html


Todd

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 07:14:57 AM by motoman465 »

PHinker

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2006, 08:11:56 AM »
   There's nothing wrong with denial when you're denying a falicy.  On the one hand, we're being told that human activity is the cause of all this climate change.  On the other hand, we're told that we're powerless to correct the problem.  NASA reports measurable global warming on both Venus and Mars over the past couple decades.  I wonder how Americans got all those SUVs and pollution pumping factories to those planets without anyone knowing about it?  Al Gore has been making the rounds with his 'Earth in the Balance' schtick for nearly 30 years.  He likes to point out that if "something isn't done" in 30 years we're in for a catastrophe.  Twenty years ago, I can remember we were all being told that the earth's oceans were dying and if we didn't do something IMMEDIATELY then in 10 years we were all doomed.


   The entire global warming issue is a perfect example of the vanity of humanity.  The myopic view that whatever happens in my lifetime is the most critical, important, significant event in the history of the world.


   The constant hew and cry from people who want to make American the villain for all that is bad comes from some sort of misplaced guilt complex.  We are constantly given the "American has 5% of the population but consumes 25% of the world's resources" but we're not told that American produces 43% of the world's corn, 44% of the world's soybeans, 11% of the world's wheat.  The numbers for peanuts, peas, sugar beats, oats, apples, potatoes, beans, and sunflowers are similar.  If the world's other food producers could be as efficient as the US farmer in terms of food produced per unit of energy used, world agricultural energy usage would plummet.


   I'm not saying there's no waste or room for improvement.  I'm a big supporter of alternative energy and anything that will reduce or eliminate the US reliance on unstable, dictatorial, lunatics for our energy.  I just don't buy into the bumper sticker finger pointing that wants to blame the greatest country this planet has ever seen for everything that isn't right.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 08:11:56 AM by PHinker »

motoman465

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2006, 08:34:30 AM »
Thanks, PHinker.  That is one reason why I wanted to post this on here.  I did not know about the figures for our agricultural outputs, thank you.  There are a lot of very intelligent people on this board(not sure if I count myself)and I knew I would get a lot of feedback and a lot of other perspectives.  Thanks and keep 'em coming.


Todd

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 08:34:30 AM by motoman465 »

DanB

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2006, 08:52:10 AM »
A few comments...


"There's nothing wrong with denial when you're denying a falicy."


You're in disagreement with the EPA, the EU, the UN, British Petroleum, Chevron (even Exxon has recently agreed that there's an issue here though they held out for quite some time)... and Al Gore ;-)


Al Gore might be putting fourth his beliefs - there's nothing new in what he's saying though, lots of good books on the topic say all the same stuff.


  "On the one hand, we're being told that human activity is the cause of all this climate change. "


Evidence seems to point in that direction.  CO2 levels are the highest they've been in almost a million years and it's a recent change which has happened since the industrial revolution.  


 "On the other hand, we're told that we're powerless to correct the problem."


Some might be saying that - most are saying there will be climate change but the cost of stopping the problem is not that great.  The technology exists and the cost need not be that high.  In the short term I can see it being rough on the world economy, in the not too long term it could be profitable.  The recent 'stern' report suggests that the cost is not so high and we're very much empowered to correct the problem.


  "NASA reports measurable global warming on both Venus and Mars over the past couple decades."


I don't see how that has anything to do with our changing the composition of our own atmosphere.


  "I wonder how Americans got all those SUVs and pollution pumping factories to those planets without anyone knowing about it?  Al Gore has been making the rounds with his 'Earth in the Balance' schtick for nearly 30 years."


Perhaps it's a matter of opinion.  Nobodies right all the time - but in my mind there is little doubt that in the last 100 years we have taken a big toll on the earth, a great deal of damage has been and continues to be done.  Humans are pretty short term thinkers - governments are really short term thinkers (usually our govt is worried mostly about the next election).  We're doing long term damage and the cost of cleaning up will be a lot greater than the cost of good habits.


  "He likes to point out that if "something isn't done" in 30 years we're in for a catastrophe.  Twenty years ago, I can remember we were all being told that the earth's oceans were dying and if we didn't do something IMMEDIATELY then in 10 years we were all doomed."


Maybe he was wrong when he said 'immediately' and '10 years'.  I don't know if you've read the news lately about the worlds fisheries - perhaps extreme, they're calling for 90% depletion of wild seafood within the next 45 years if we continue business as usual.  Since 1953, according to recent reports, 29% of fish and seafood species has collapsed (their average annual catch has declined by at least 90%).  That's quite serious and maybe folks should've been paying more attention 20 years ago.  About 30% of the worlds coral reefs are dead, and this has happened mostly in the last 20 years.  So - maybe his prediction of 10 years was off the mark (and you know - I don't think he said we were doomed, I think he predicted serious problems though, which - in my opinion have come to pass and hopefully things wont get worse.)


   "The entire global warming issue is a perfect example of the vanity of humanity.  The myopic view that whatever happens in my lifetime is the most critical, important, significant event in the history of the world."


You might be right - but you must admit this is a very unique period in the history of the world.  Approaching 7,000,000,000 in human population (it was about 2 billion in 1927) and technology moving foward at a pace like never before.  Along with technology comes some solutions - but also incredible use of energy unlike ever before.


   "The constant hew and cry from people who want to make American the villain for all that is bad comes from some sort of misplaced guilt complex.  We are constantly given the "American has 5% of the population but consumes 25% of the world's resources" but we're not told that American produces 43% of the world's corn, 44% of the world's soybeans, 11% of the world's wheat.  The numbers for peanuts, peas, sugar beats, oats, apples, potatoes, beans, and sunflowers are similar.  If the world's other food producers could be as efficient as the US farmer in terms of food produced per unit of energy used, world agricultural energy usage would plummet."


I agree with some of what you have to say there.  Our government has been ignoring the issue though.  We're fortunate in the US to occupy some of the worlds most productive lands.  In some way - the world benifits from this.  In other ways I think we are villians in our habits and lifestyles.  This is not a black and white issue - there are lots of gray areas.  It is in my mind - a very serious issue though and 'whos to blame' is not the issue - solving the problem should be on everyones mind.


   "I'm not saying there's no waste or room for improvement."


That's good, because there is tons of waste and a great deal of room for improvement.  I think we're in a great deal of trouble if we don't improve things a great deal soon.


"  I'm a big supporter of alternative energy and anything that will reduce or eliminate the US reliance on unstable, dictatorial, lunatics for our energy. "


Me too.  I didn't get into this renewable energy because I'm a 'tree hugger' or any of that - I do it because it's fun, I'm a 'gear head' and it's a necessary evil if I want electricity where I have chosen to live.  


" I just don't buy into the bumper sticker finger pointing that wants to blame the greatest country this planet has ever seen for everything that isn't right."


No - I don't either, but I do think Americans have some of the sloppiest habits out there and the cost to future generations and other countries for our habits will be high.  I also think that 'the greatest country this planet has ever seen' should be on the cutting edge of things and setting a good example.  At this point in time we're not.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 08:52:10 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

Stonebrain

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2006, 11:06:28 AM »
Hi motoman,

Thanks for bringing up the issue.


Except from danb not many seem to share your worries.

global warming is an invention of 'treehuggers'.

And anyway if it's tru it will be benefic for the planet.


"ten years ago the treehuggers predicted a catastrophe and

we're still alive."

Yea,we're still alive but species(fish)that are our food

are dissapearing and some species are disapeared in some places.

The disaster is happening now under our eyes.

Some say

"Yea,thats because the whales and  seals ate all the fish.

eliminate those and things will go better."

Human stupidness has no limits.


I prefer to be a treehugger.


cheers,

stonebrain


 

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 11:06:28 AM by Stonebrain »

wooferhound

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2006, 02:33:20 PM »
It's not the Heat

It's the Stupidity . . .
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 02:33:20 PM by wooferhound »

electrondady1

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2006, 04:52:03 PM »
humans are capable of such great things when we work to gether

i am confident and optomistic .

we can meet the challenges that are before us.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 04:52:03 PM by electrondady1 »

motoman465

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2006, 08:12:59 PM »
Very well spoken, wooferhound!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 08:12:59 PM by motoman465 »

Volvo farmer

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2006, 08:44:15 PM »
Interesting discussion here!


I do not deny that human activity is largely responsible for the historically high levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. I've skimmed some of that "Stern Report" though, and it reads to me like that stuff was written by a guy with a whole lot of education, and not much experience in the real world. I agree with most of what you have written, but I do question this statement.


"Most are saying there will be climate change but the cost of stopping the problem is not that great.  The technology exists and the cost need not be that high.  In the short term I can see it being rough on the world economy, in the not too long term it could be profitable.  The recent 'stern' report suggests that the cost is not so high and we're very much empowered to correct the problem."


If you could shed some light on this, I'd gladly listen, because I feel that the cost is very high and that we are not at all empowered to correct the problem. There are seven BILLION souls on this planet. Every single one of us wants to burn up carbon to increase our well-being, standard of living, and to make our kids happy and comfortable. It has been this way forever. The guy with a fire in the hearth is warmer, happier and better off than the guy with a dozen blankets on his bed and no fire. The guy who burns up enough carbon to make bronze is better off than the guy who is making his weapons out of stone.


From what I just skimmed of Stern, it seems that he believes that if governments can tax carbon enough,  it will fundamenatlly change human behavior and will turn this whole CO2 problem around. That just rings untrue to me.


I would like to be an optimist on this issue but the realist in me comes out and I just can't help but believe that humans are a virus on this planet. We're either going to kill our host or our host is going to kill a bunch of us (maybe all of us) off, maybe both. I haven't checked your figures, but if it only took ninety years for the population to more than triple, what will the earth be like in 2096, where there are theoretically twenty five billion people here, all trying to feed, clothe, and better themselves? Maybe I'm not looking at this right and there are technological innovations that would allow twenty-five billion people, maybe even seventy-five billion in the year 2200 to live here. Something in my head tells me that technology is not the solution to this problem. Technology is part of the paradigm that got us here, but it is not the way out, unless we use it to make like viruses and find other hosts to infect.


 

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 08:44:15 PM by Volvo farmer »
Less bark, more wag.

hgp

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2006, 09:29:37 PM »
I could not let comments on rising sea levels go with out pointing out some facts relating to the south pole which sould be pointed out is sitting on the continent of Antarctica an area of 5.4 million sq miles 1.5 times the size of the USA.The fifth largest continent contains 70% of the worlds fresh water 90% of the worlds ice,only 11% of this is sea ice.The ice at the south pole is 1.8miles thick the average thickness of ice is approx 2miles thick.As you can see a very large ice block sitting above sea level.Should this start melting its going to have a effect on sea level.Its that simple,global warming means global. what happens in the northern hemesphere happens in the southern.

On the lighter side blizzards with winds of 200mph are common,sounds like good place to test windmill furling.


Herman

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 09:29:37 PM by hgp »

DanB

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2006, 09:45:17 PM »
"If you could shed some light on this, I'd gladly listen, because I feel that the cost is very high and that we are not at all empowered to correct the problem. "


I guess perhaps I was trying to play devils advocate a bit and sound less pessimistic than I usually feel about it actually.  I do think we can go a long ways towards improving the outlook of things, but at this point no matter what - there is allready a big price to pay for past behavior I think.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 09:45:17 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

motoman465

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2006, 11:55:04 PM »
I love it Herman!  A true optimist always finds the silver lining...LOL!  Does sounds as though it would be great for wind power!


Todd

« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 11:55:04 PM by motoman465 »

electrondady1

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2006, 06:28:45 AM »
perhaps i am being simplistic. but it seems to me that what is required is a change of culture from one of consumption and waste to one of concervancy.

if china can instagate a one child policy why then can't the rest of the world?

« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 06:28:45 AM by electrondady1 »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2006, 08:39:20 AM »
There are places there that have average anual wind speeds of 50 mph!  A decient 20 ft diameter turbine there could produce 50,000 watts at the average wind speed.


.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 08:39:20 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

wooferhound

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2006, 09:14:22 AM »
There are no emergency exits on the Earth

Google Video . . .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8453442377878175440

« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 09:14:22 AM by wooferhound »

Titantornado

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2006, 11:13:23 AM »
I SOOOOOO agree with that!!!!    The population is increasing at an exponential rate.   One child for every couple is good practice (reduction in population) in my book.  But, good luck trying to convince people of that.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 11:13:23 AM by Titantornado »

jimjjnn

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2006, 01:08:09 PM »
My daus were brought up believing that one kid was enough. One dau says no kids for her and the other decided one was ok and has frequent times that she'd like to flush her dau down the porcelain throne.:))
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 01:08:09 PM by jimjjnn »

JohnC

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Re: Hello friends
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2006, 04:34:22 PM »
Three years back I was in Shenzen, China which is a industrial zone.

On a clear day you could look up at the sun and it was just a haze, no stain to your eyes.

Some people in the streets wore masks to protect them-selves from exhuast fumes.

It was common to see people hork and spit on the street to clear their throats, you would see even women do this.  A case of water was the same price of beer, I drank lots of beer. The seawater in the habour was mucky brown and  garbage floating around. If you travel there do not eat fruit, uncooked vegtables, nor drink their water. I kinda see why the government is allowing our industries to be transfered there. Guess they think it is better to keep the polution there. Anyhow I could not imagine how it will be in 25 0r 50 years from now. We are not that far behind them.


John E Cox

« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 04:34:22 PM by JohnC »