Dog cart/bike doohickey

[Miztiki]

I looked in the dog world for someone to build the cart I have in mind but learned that such people are few and far between (basically nonexistent). So, I guess I'll have to build it myself, or at least learn how to put it all together so that I can explain it to someone else who will do the building for me.

Here's a bird's eye view: http://tinyurl.com/348kuf

The same but with the parts labeled: http://tinyurl.com/38mhak

Some measurements: http://tinyurl.com/2soq6q

More measurements: http://tinyurl.com/3ygeug

Here's a picture of a dog and scooter I got from the web. I drew in the harness, shaft and hitch that I have in mind for my setup:  http://tinyurl.com/2ts8qj

Here's the shaft in "motion": http://tinyurl.com/2mb8ar

Here's a weird bike I found on the web that has the basic shape of what I had in mind for the cart: http://tinyurl.com/2l436c

I've erased the gears, pedals, etc. and drawn in the steering mechanism I have in mind at this point. (That would be two chains hanging down for my feet to set on.) I think that would give me the traction I need and would be lightweight. I'd like the option of a steering handle so I can steer with my hands if I don't want to steer with my feet, or if I need to get off the cart and help the dogs up a hill and steer.

Weight is extremely important for this cart. I have a really bad back so the bike will have to be lightweight and come apart. Maybe the wheels can come off, the seat, and the shafts, leaving just the frame.

I can't take nice, long, leisurely walks because of my back so this cart would enable me to take those walks. No running, just walking. The cart will mostly be on dirt roads. I'd like a future version to have off-road capabilities.

In the diagram I have the back wheels under and a bit behind the seat so their legs and tails don't get caught in them. They would be fairly close together, providing a bit more stability than just one wheel and allowing the cart to stand on its own without the dogs hooked up to it. The dogs themselves will sort of act like training wheels on a bike when they are hooked up.

I don't want my butt more than 12" off the ground. That would make the back wheels less than 12". I don't know how tire size affects their ability to pull me on gravel roads. If small tires would make it too hard for them to pull me then I'll have to make the tires bigger and change the design. The front tire should be far enough out front that it won't be in the way of their legs.

The way the cart is designed now, their backs make very convenient arm rests. :-D

I haven't figured out a brake system yet, other than telling them to stop and using my feet if needed.

The hitch line that connects to their harness would have a quick release snap in case they had to be freed quickly, like if a strange dog came up causing trouble. Their leashes would always be attached to their regular collars too.

I am thinking it would be best to have a hinge with a tension spring of some sort on the shaft. Otherwise the shaft could poke into their backs when stepping up on something like a curb. Hopefully the diagram I drew will show how it would move up and down with the dog as needed, with the middle drawing being the neutral position. The tension spring would cause it to always pull slightly upwards at all times. If the dog has to step down then the weight of the dog will pull it downwards with him/her, then it would go back to the neutral position. It wouldn't be able to go forward, backward, or sideways, just up and down.

I am thinking that the seat should absorb the bumps. I don't know what type of seat I want yet. I have a few ideas though.

I don't know how much distance can be between the front and back wheels and still safely support my weight. From the looks of that bike I linked to, it looks like I won't have much to worry about.

So here it is on paper but I don't know if it's structurally accurate and I certainly don't know how to make it real. I am actively looking for someone to build it for me so if you can help with that then please email me at hotmail.com and if you have any suggestions or thoughts or comments or whatever then do post them here. I don't know anything about designing a cart like this.

Thanks for looking,

Miztiki

Here's me by the way: http://tinyurl.com/2pg6jc

[vawtman]

Oh for goodness sakes tiki.

 Take a break your thinkin too much about nothing.What are you trying to accomplish with all this?Sorry but an opinion

[Miztiki]

I'm trying to have a life despite my bad back. I don't call that "nothing". Your comment is not appreciated.

[Darren73]

Hi Miztiki,

the original design shown on the scooter would be the best, it allows the dogs to pull properly while allowing for vertical movement, it also is very simple and lends itself to being taken apart for transport etc.

you might be better off looking at some of the competition wheelchairs for ideas, they usually have very light frames, and solid disk wheels ie no spokes to get fingers or tails caught in.

is there a specific reason you want to be so close to the floor?

take care

Darren

[Countryboy]

As best I can tell, I think you are telling us you want to harness your dogs so they can pull you around on a cart of some kind.

If it was me, I'd look at the sled dog harnesses they use in Alaska.  Instead of using a sled, attach the harness to the tricycle or cart.

[Countryboy]

I just checked an old WWII military manual I have on dog sledding.  They say to use 3 dogs to pull the driver, sled, and equipment.  The maximum load per dog is 100 pounds.  For example, a team of 9 dogs would be able to pull a driver, sled, equipment, and 600 pounds of cargo.  

[Miztiki]

Hi guys,

I have a few reasons for wanting to be low to the ground. For one thing, it's less distance to fall from! :-D  Anything taller would make the cart bigger, and by extension heavier. I would need to build arm rests (more size and weight), it would be easier to get in and out of, etc.

Countryboy, that's what I'm saying, yep. My dogs are my passion and this would get us out and about and give us something fun to do. Now if I can only find someone to build it for me then I'll be all set. That's the hard part, finding someone.

Miz

[electrondady1]

the low slung wagon thing would be ok

but there would be room for other people on the sidewalk

if you put your dogs out in front

like people have done for thousands of years.

you will need the brakes!

[RP]

For brakes, I'd think you could use typical bicycle caliper brakes.   Even adding the mass of the dogs, you'll still likely have 3 wheels so 50% more braking power than a bike.

[nanotech]

I'm not sure of the reason, but generally larger diameter tires/wheels make for easier movement, especially on a rough surface like gravel.  For an example look at high-grass lawn mowers.  The larger rear wheels make it easier to push the mower around.  Also think of baby buggies.  Those with the tiny little plastic wheels and miniscule rubber tires on them are a right pain to push except on a linoleum or tile floor.  But you get those jogging strollers with 10" or 12" tires on them, they don't take much of anything to push, and they're twice as heavy!!

Also remember that for a 12" ground clearance, you would use 24 inch tires.  And if you used a drop-style axle, you could even go up to 26" or 27" bicycle wheels.  But then you would need to have the rear wheels far enough behind you to be out of the way.  If you were to use a straight axle and put the chair on top of it, you could use 20" BMX wheels and tires and Ready-Rod for the axle.

For the front wheel you could use the gooseneck and forks from a toddler's bicycle.  That would give you the steering capability.

For the seat, I would go with a gokart seat from Northern Tool.  Fairly comfortable, fairly light, and already designed for the purpose.

And I agree with electrondady1.  Putting the dogs out in front gives them direct linear pulling, and also makes for a narrower total vehicle.  Also gives you a more commanding view of any possible problems / hazards.

I'm not sure of the logistics, but I would also go with four wheels for balance and steering issues.  But that's me.

[coldspot]

Sort of like a project I came up with a month or so ago.

Using a jogging stroller that has about 16" tires I plan on electric drive to front single wheel freewheeled sprocket

and sitting between the rear dual tires on a swivel seat post to a smaller trailing fourth wheel, shocked with springs minimun to keep in contact with the ground as it would need to get longer as it swiveled or leaned.

The fourth wheel would be to help stearing, (I hope, untested idea).

Dual rear wheels set up with bike brakes as a skid-stear or tank type stearing using the brake on side wanting to turn to, slowing that side to turn that direction and with driver being able to also help with leaning and rear wheel also turning it some.

The jogging stroller I came up with is very light wheight.

made with aluminum tubes and boat-top type hardware holding it all together.

I hope to get some real speed out of this one.

$0.02

[elvin1949]

 Miztiki

 OK where to start. The trike you have a pic of,

is a delta recumbent.ie-one wheel front two rear.

 I myself think a tadpole design would be better.

IE-2 wheels front and 1 rear.With this design the dog's would be behind the front wheels,and beside you.

 What part of the world are you in.I have all of the parts needed to build this with accept for the seat.

The seat is a nylon mesh sling [you sit in it, not on it] Think recliner and light weight.

 This cart should be built from bicycle parts to

keep the weight down.It should weigh less than 50 lb's.I have about 55 to 60 bikes for parts.

 I am more than likely to far away from you to

be much help building it,but i can help with parts

and design.

 If you can't find someone close to build it

and are not in to big of a rush,i will be able to build after the middle of may.I am having 2 disk's

in my neck repaired in march.Need time to recover.

 You see that i understand back problem's.

Already had 4 disk's repaired[lot's of scrap-iron here].

OH almost forgot i am in leesville,louisiana.

 If you are interested email me.

Later

Elvin

PS parts are free

[Bruce S]

Elvin;

  I would normally agree with the tadpole design. We have a few here at work and they are far more easier on the back and manuvering than delta, IMHO.

The one obsticale I see would be dog safety. With two wheels up front they would be too close to the steering and moving wheels for safety.

Using the delta style would allow the dogs to be up at the front where they could be more effiecient , again going along with the proven Iditarod styles.

The sling type seat using rip-stop material will save Lbs and last a lot longer in the extreme cold than normal plastic seats, and in a pich it could be used as a sail if for some reason the other modes where down, (i.e. tired dogs :-/).

I have a set of plans that a friend, who now has his his own web site, if you would like to take a look.

These 'bents are very easy on the back.

Frank would also have some insight into this as he's already built the 'bent mill.

Mitzy; Keep asking those questions:-)

BTW: Is that a lab/collie mix?

Cheers ALL;

Bruce S

 

[Miztiki]

Hi guys,

I was out all day yesterday so sorry I didn't get back to you right away. Ok, where to start...

Elvin, we are not far from you at all! We live in Pearland, a suburb of south Houston, so just a few hours away. I'd like to get this built long before May but maybe I could buy some parts off from you and get some help with the design. I wouldn't want anything for free but that's very kind of you to offer. When is your surgery? I sure hope it goes well for you.

I will probably have to go up to 16" tires. If the frame is connected at the midpoint of the front tire (8") with the back tires tucked under the seat, then the frame would have quite a downward slope, unless it can be angled somehow. My concern is with their tails and legs. That's why I'd like to have the wheels tucked under the seat/back of the cart if possible. Can that be done with my butt still no more than 12" off the ground? How would I steer it with my feet then? Can the wheels/spokes be covered with something? I don't know how bikes are put together so I just don't know and I can't visualize it.

Bruce, I would love to have your friend's website so I can take a look.

That picture of Boy is when I first brought him home from the shelter. I thought he might have some Border Collie in him but I put him on sheep a couple times and he has no herding instincts whatsoever, and he just doesn't have the quirks of a BC. He's not bad on cows though so maybe he's part Australian Shepherd. Some look exactly like a BC, minus the "eye". I don't know what breeds are in him though.

Having them beside me is important because it would give me much more control over them. I can't risk any accidents and they do happen in Iditarod-style and sulky setups. I know there's still a risk but it's a calculated risk and I just can't keep sitting here day after day. It's no life. But anywhoo...

Please keep talking. I need the help. Thanks!

Miz

[Miztiki]

I just drew up a side view of the dog, wheels, and me, and it's to scale (1 square = 1 inch). I'm not quite proportionate but the dog and wheels are. The seat is angled about right too and puts my butt about 12" off the ground.

http://tinyurl.com/2yec74

I didn't draw in the frame or foot steering though. I'd like the back wheels to be under the seat/back of the cart so they are out of the way but I don't know how that could be done with the bigger wheels. That's why I didn't draw in the rest. Maybe one of you can help me out with that?

If keeping the wheels out of the way is not possible then maybe you might know of a way to cover the spokes portion so no dog parts can get caught up in them.

Thanks again for your ideas and all,

Miz

[Gordy]

Miz,

To bad you didn't post this back in Novemmber. An easy and light way to cover the spokes would have been to get some of those corregated plastic election sings, Cut them to fit the ID of the rim and a center hole for the hub. then just punch holes in it, and zip tie it to the spokes.

But because that will still leave the front of the wheel exposed it will still be possible for a paw to get run over. So I'm thinking more alogn the lines of a body / fender skirt arangement, comeing to an inch or 2 from the ground. This would also be made of that corregated plastic, to keep weight down. If you have seen pic's of old orchard tractors, you'll know what I'm thinking of.

Gordy

[Bruce S]

Miz;

 No problem, here's the main website. Read in it, he'll send via email a full set of plans most welder, and tinkerer can read/do.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bowden10/

They are free, he does ask that if you really like and use them to make a donation to a carity, but doesn't push it or require it.

Do note though that these are mainly for human power with the possiblity of electric assist to addon.

Hope this helps;

Bruce

[elvin1949]

Morning Bruce

 I agree the dog's "should" be in front "BUT".

You can streach the wheelbase just a little on a tadpole to have the dog's on either side and

still pulling the trike.Or out in front whichever you prefure.

 The tadpole is easyer on the back.

The URL for your friend's website please,love to see new and different bike's and trike's.

later

elvin

[Miztiki]

Gordy, that's a good idea. It's lightweight, cheap, and would hold up long enough to make it worthwhile. I'm pretty sure I could find some material even now. Thanks for the idea.

You're a gem Bruce. Thanks for helping me out again.

I seem to have found someone who can help me out, at least with part of it. I'll share pictures once it's up and running. Should be fun!

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Miz