driveing multible pm motors

[pepa]

one good thing about having several projects going at once is the fact that if you get held up or bored with one you can pick up where you left off on another one. this project is to make use of the pile of pm motors that i have on hand and to try a different methed of gearing up without a lot of friction loss. i also want to try using one of the motors to increase or maintain rpm during periods of low wind by having a wind speed controled relay to bypass it's diod at preset wind speeds. this should be a low rpm hi torque unit that produces small but regular amount of amps into my batteries.



enjoying myself, pepa

[Norm]

Hmmm....looks like it'll work....about 4 buckets

high by 2 buckets wide...(gee lot of nice buckets

for windmill blades...LOL !

               ( :>) Norm.

[pepa]

hi norm actually it is four pieces of stove pipe 60" high and 36" finished dia. with a 5' section of fiberglass pole as the center. pepa

[Norm]

I just realized those are motors with the pulleys

riding around the inside edge....neat....I could

do the same thing with 4 stepper motors I have.

  I even have a 5' section of iron pipe that I

can use.....

What's the ratio? Mine would only have to be

about 3 to 1, one lights a 6volt 2led lamp at

about 80 rpm.

 What kind of bearing do you use for the top?

                  ( :>) Norm.

[pepa]

the bearing is a one and one half inch roller type bearing from a mobile home axel. i used four of the rear wheel sprocket sections from a junk ten speed bike. i have't worked out the ratio for each motor but it should be quiet high as the chain is approx twenty eight inches in dia. i hope this helps, pepa

[vawtman]

Nice work Pepa

 How does she spin with no load?

[nothing to lose]

Nice work you did there and great idea!

I like that chain and sprocket idea. That may be just what I need for a project myself and I never thought about running one inside a circle like that. It should take all the main stress off the chain and being the chain is not runing normally bending around sprockets no worries about oiling, rusting up, locking up, or breaking under tension.

How did you make that though, I mean to hold the chain in place under loads? How is it fastened in placed?

[pepa]

hi ntl, i dadoed the inside of the circle to the depth of the chain and epoxied the entire chain into the dado with jb weld, making sure to keep the sprocket tooth area clear.

hello vawtman, you are the inspiration for this one. i have not put it up yet, but hope to have it flying by sunday. with the tower resting on a support at an angle the mill spins very easy (while i was balancing the blades) even at an angle. the unit weight is less than a hundred pounds without the motors attached. a lot has yet to be done, the pole that the unit will spin on will fit over the top of my 42' tiltup to extend the mill to 50' if it works as i plan. as of now the tower pole is only twelve ft., but used as a test tower it will be low enough to test and tune up the unit before i raise it to full hight. having a good time pepa.

[Countryboy]

A Savonious type VAWT 60 inches tall, and 36 inches diameter.

That's a grand total of 7.5 feet of swept area. (with another 7.5 feet dragging the wind.)  

That's roughly the equivalent of a 36 inch diameter HAWT, in terms of swept area.

Think of the power you would get from a 3 foot HAWT.  Minus Savonious inefficiencies.  Minus gear reduction inefficiencies.

I hate to sound like a naysayer, but unless you have hurricane winds, it's unlikely you will get any usable power.  4 PM motors are simply going to add way too much drag to ever get anything from such a small rotor.  Odds are, you'll be lucky if it turns.

It's a neat looking project though.  If I were you, I'd try it with one PM motor and see if you can get any power, before you try overloading it with 4 PM motors.

[Norm]

Here is the same idea, I was thinking of doing

the same thing along time ago but I couldn't

figure how to hold the chain in place until

I just now see how you did it....really neat

Pepa !





Like it shows here, I cut a circle of cardboard....

cut a length of chain so it was just a shade too

short....sanded down the edge of the cardboard

until the chain fit.

  You just gotta be havin' a barrel of fun !

                 ( :>) Norm.

[electrondady1]

real nice work pepa.

some unique features

i'm keepin' my fingers crossed it works for you.

country boy has made valid points of course

but i just like the way verticals look when there turning.

[pepa]

hay countryboy, this is just an experiment that may work and may not but the small test unit that i built and tested worked fine and with one of the motors helping the wind i thank i might will get a few wats out of it. i do this as a hobby and if it does't work i will try something else and i don't think the design of this unit will have the drag loses that you quoted. wind speeds up as it goes around a rounded object if there is no build up of pressure in front of the rounded object. having fun, pepa.

[Norm]

Even if it is too small he can keep the gear

arrangement disk motors and all and just make

it bigger....wider taller ...it'll fly !

          ( :>) Norm.

[pepa]

good thinking Norm, i have the poles and a large pile of sheet metal, if i had some help i could build a monster size unit but i am alone and do this for fun and to try out new (out of the box) ideas. nothing ventured nothing gained!

Electrondady1 thanks for the comment. pepa

[nothing to lose]

"if i had some help i could build a monster size unit but i am alone and do this for fun "

Me too,

No permanant plans for the summer yet, got a place to park my little motor home? HA HA

Thanks for posting the info on that chain drive. I still have a bunch (9 or 10) of those 3phase DC Efka motors, about 750watts each. I think your chain drive/gear type system there is just what I need to gear them up a bit.

 I have 8' and about 7' 3 blade sets for rotors not being used, and I also want my own Lenz2 before long.

Going to draw up some parts to have cut for mounting plates for the arms soon, I may haveeverything else I need except the time.

[pepa]

hi ntl, i have just the spot,sewage huckup is no problem. come on down and let's build something. my wife and i would like would love to have you. look for email, pepa.

[thefinis]

Countryboy I prefer to use the total swept area(15 sq ft here) not just the power area. Seems like a better idea and just adjust the efficiency to match the turbine. If you are figuring tower loading you need to remember to include it. Main reason I do this is that not all vawts are Savonious and some designs in vawts are extracting some power from the upwind side. The S rotor with a solid middle has more losses than one with an overlap but even it directs a small part of the air flow from the upwind to the downwind side. Old argument not interested in reviving it as it basically makes no difference for an S rotor with solid center.

Pepa nice setup and I like the fact that there is no pto shaft in the middle. Makes for  much easier mounting of the turbine. Look at Ed's Lenz2 or even a setup with two overlapping halves for improved wind performance. Next thing you know you will be wanting >1 tsr like Vawtman's wings.

How did the oil furnace work over the winter?

Finis

[pepa]

hi finis, the heater worked grear after i converted it to waste oil, it kept the shop nice all winter. i now have about 1000 gal of oil left and it is still coming weekly. the buckets in the pictures are less than half of what i have stored. this is a photo of the bearing that supports the load. the race for the bearing is embeded in the top of the blade unit. there are six roller blade rollers,along with the four sprockets that hold the bottom of the blades in line so i can remove as many motors as i need to make it work if needed. i know almost nothing about this type of windmill but i am learning. i made a small verson of this unit and it almost flew off it's tower with very little wind and no sound. i will mount a flag on top of the tower to show what wind the mill is seeing along with direction. having fun, pepa

[ghurd]

WVO or motor oil?  Guessing WVO.

I'd move that puppy into the house next winter!

G-

[Bruce S]

G-

I'm with oyu on this one. 1000 gals? WOW !

pepa, are you doing anything special with the WVO ? as far a filtering out the "sludge" and such. Just wondering as I start building up supplies for biodiesel trials. I have noticed there seems to be a lot of water borne stuff, and that direct fire heating has caused some interesting pop and fizzles:--)

back on topic!

Nice rooler bearing on the top, do you have it there for further add-on or ?

Cheers

Bruce S

 

[vawtman]

Countryboy

 Any pics of your turbine.You are right but its easy to do what your doing.Sorry but try and build something its fun.

[pepa]

hi bruce, i have a series of 50gal plastic barrols with a spicket at the very bottom and another spicket installed about a third of the way up from the bottom. when i bring the oil in i strain it through several layers of cloth into several 20gal plastic tubs. i use hardware cloth to form a pocket to hold the cloth filters at the top while it is straining out the solids. from these filter tanks i pump the strained oil into the storage drums where it has time to settle any missed solids and the sludge, if there is any water in the oil it will be at the top of the drum and i draw the oil that i need from the upper spicket. the oil being taken out looks as clean as new oil. i am real lucky that i get oil strait from the kitchen of the supermarket delly and it is placed in 5 gal buckets with the led on for me and there is no chance of water getting to it. i have had no problems burning the strained oil and it burns clean with little or no smoke. a queston bruce, could your little batteries replace rhe ones in cordless tools? still waiting on your visit, pepa

[nothing to lose]

Might depend on the tools, but a friend re-built a cordless tool battery pack from cells of Bruce Packs I gave him and it worked well.

[pepa]

thanks NTL for the info. i have several tools that have bad batteries. i took one battery apart to add a wire lead to run the drill off a 24v battery bank and the cells looked like the ones i saw you folks working with. if not they could still work as a portable sorse wirh a short lead. pepa

[ghurd]

PERFECT fit for Makita.

G-

[pepa]

thanks Guard most of my cordless tools are makita, i'll try to locate some of those batteries. do you know if bruce sells them? pepa.

[sh123469]

Pepa,

I would love to find out some more information on the used oil heater.  Is there a diary or series of postings about it?

Thanks

Steve

[pepa]

hi steve, i did not do a post on the heater except a fiew pictures when i found it at the dump, that are in my diaries. i have a lot of info. on other projects that burn wvo in my files amd diarie, i'll make a diarie on the converson when i have time. pepa.

[Norm]

  Some of your batteries may not even need to be

replaced.....there is one guy on Google that

'jump starts' them with a dc welder.

 Extreme caution when doing this and safety

precautions of course.

                 ( :>| Norm.

[Gordy]

Here's a good site for your furnace questions. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace/

Gordy

[pepa]

thanks Norm, i will try to google for that post. i finally took time to work out the rato for the four motors. the total chain length is 60" and each motor has a different size sprocket, starting with the small one first- 8.52 to 1- 6.67 to 1-6.0 to 1- 5.0 to 1. the small sprocket motor is from a electric schooter and will be the one used with a diode bypass to drive the blades in low wind and controled by a relay. the relay will be controlled by wind speed. the motor will be off with the wind at 5mph or lower and producing power above 8mph if i figured right, we will see, having fun, pepa

[Bruce S]

pepa;

  Look for me this May:--) Moving sister on the 31st to Charleston. Mom is getting worse:-(.

AND I and a bunch on here have tons of questions about the WVO setup. I may bring the 300D so I can filler up at your place:--)

Also a little trick that the lady that I currently buy my B100 from, she's uses cast off jeans. the weave is tight even the cheap ones from Wally world, they filter down to ~5microns.

I'm tapping my wifes place of employment starting today for peanut and olive oil, so will see how well that goes.

Had to get the okay from the city to do this. Neighbor complained about the setup on the west side of the house. He's 95,0000 years old and his daughter is the 4'11" from hell.

I win!! the city is now doing it's best to "look" greener, and the inspector drives a diesel truck:-)

              )-:I do need to clear up a misconception:-(

 I do not and NEVER will ask for $$$ for these batts, just pay for shipping (~$5 - $10 per box of 6 or more!!

They come out of EKG machines and I hate the idea of having Battplus charge us for recycling them when the only thing that keeps us from using them for more than 2 years is the FDA.

  Let me know your shipping address and I'll throw some your way. Also see Norm's files for how to adapt for 12Vdc these packs are 19.2 /1.3Ah or 4x4 rows of Sub-C cells.

NTL has found out that using a 180watt soldering iron and you can use the tabs on these to build up to replace the charger packs.

The current load from these are awesome and they recover from near death with a good solar charge:--)

I have a H.F. PDU dumping hook up set up for SLAs at no mre than C10 for charging.

I will if time permits bring some with me to drop off also.

Have fun!!

Bruce S

 

[pepa]

thanks for the reply Bruce, i sent you a reply to your email before i saw this message. i am sorry to hear about mom's health, i lost my mother when she was ninety ohe and it is hard to see them sick and not be able to help. i put your email into my files (or though i did) to have your email address. i was going to send you a updated email reply but somehow i lost the email insted. i am not computer smart at all. a new lite shines for me with you dropping by, pepa.