Author Topic: Got a Battery!  (Read 2002 times)

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bigkahoonaa

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Got a Battery!
« on: July 13, 2007, 03:50:43 PM »
After weeks of trying to figure out what to do next, it finally dawned on me that I should connect a battery to my windmill. Batteries have their own internal resistance, etc. and can self regulate within limits.  This is how I plan to connect the battery:





The first thing my software is going to do is activate relay S1, and release breaks.  I'm wiring it this way as a safety feature.  The mill can't start unless my PC is on.  


Power is going to go directly to rectifiers and then to the battery.  I'm going to let the blade spin up to a mind-blowing 120 RPM.  I can't let it spin faster, because the voltage produced is going to exceed 30 volts.  Relay S2 is going to activate to keep the blade at this limit.  


I also have a simple voltage sensor made from a zener and a potentiometer.  It's going to bring line 12 on the parallel port from low (0V) to high (5V), at which point Relay S2 is going to activate to keep battery voltage from going too high.  


Hope I don't ruin my new battery!

« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 03:50:43 PM by (unknown) »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 02:06:59 PM »
The symbol for relay is "K".  "S" is for "switch".


The diode after the rectifier is completely redundant with the diodes in the rectifier.  All it's doing is wasting power.  Replace it with a chunk of wire.


The first thing my software is going to do is activate relay S1, and release breaks.


I strongly recommend that you move the wire from the NO connection of S1 to the generator side, so the relay just shorts the alternator to apply the brakes.  You're on the AC side of the rectifier so you won't short the battery by doing this.  This avoids the possiblilty of leaving the mill with no load if a contact fails in the relay.


Power is going to go directly to rectifiers and then to the battery.  I'm going to let the blade spin up to a mind-blowing 120 RPM.  I can't let it spin faster, because the voltage produced is going to exceed 30 volts.  Relay S2 is going to activate to keep the blade at this limit.


The battery will do that just fine, with no extra help, if the rectifiers are big enough to handle all the current the mill can produce.  Voltage generated by the mill is proportional to speed.  Current produces a torque resisting turning.  So as the mill speeds up past cutin the battery holds the output voltage essentially constant.  With increasing speed comes increasing current thorugh the wiring resistance and increasing resistance to turning.  Above cutin the speed of the mill rises much slower than the speed of the wind.  (If the mill were wired with superconductors it would spin up to cutin and never go ANY faster.)


I also have a simple voltage sensor made from a zener and a potentiometer.  It's going to bring line 12 on the parallel port from low (0V) to high (5V), at which point Relay S2 is going to activate to keep battery voltage from going too high.


Why not just leave the genny connected to the rectifier and use the relay to put a load on the battery that discharges it faster than the generator charges it, until the voltage comes back down?  That way you won't have sudden changes to the load jerking at the root of your blades, and massive current surges trying to weld your relay contacts.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 02:06:59 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

bigkahoonaa

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 10:48:50 PM »
Ungrounded Lightning Rod


I've felt for some time that diodes after a rectifier were redundant. The rectifier has diodes.  Current from the battery can't change blade power.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 10:48:50 PM by bigkahoonaa »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 07:49:35 PM »
Current from the battery can't change blade power.


Sure it can.


The charging current into the battery represents a load on the shaft.  (It magnetizes the coil assembly so it tries to "stick" to the magnets, so they must be pulled apart by power from the turbine.  Thus is energy conserved.)


Mechanical power is force times distance moved - which in a rotational setting is torque times RPM.


When it's free-wheeling the only torque felt by the turbine is friction in the genny (bearings, eddy current losses, etc.)  RPM is high but torque is almost non-existent.  Thus virtually no power.


As the battery loads it up the current goes up, and thus the torque goes up.  The blades slow down a bit relative to the free-wheeling speed.  But the product still rises.  Thus the power goes up.  At the blade-air interface the blades are going slower, which makes the angle of the "apparent wind" change, increasing the amount of lift on the blades and thus the torque on the shaft (which comes mainly from the component of the lift vector that lies along the direction of rotation).


Load it up TOO much and the angle of attack becomes great enough that the airstream "detaches" from the back side of the blades.  Lift is drastically reduced.  This is "stalling".  Dropping torque AND dropping speed means REALLY dropping power.  Dropping torque with increasing load can produce runaway positive feedback that quickly brings the mill to a near-halt (unless the slowdown reduces the torque again).


This is how stall-regulated turbines work, in lieu of furling.  (Though it's a pain to get the design right, and they tend to be very noisy when operating partially stalled, so other furling systems are better for us.)  It's also why, once shorting the alternator has brought the blades to a near stop, the alternator no longer produces heavy currents in the wiring and doesn't burn out.  (And the high power when the blades AREN'T stalled is why, if your alternator is too weak to pull the spinning blades into stall, you'll fry it TRYING to stop the moving turbine.)


So the battery+load current, by loading the shaft, DOES affect the power produced by the blades.  A lot.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 07:49:35 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 07:54:54 PM »
Dropping torque AND dropping speed means REALLY dropping power.  Dropping torque with increasing load can produce runaway positive feedback that quickly brings the mill to a near-halt (unless the slowdown reduces the torque again).


Make that "... unless the slowdown reduces the LOAD torque again".


I.e. by dropping the voltage, which drops the current, which drops the load on the shaft.  Thus are stall-regulated turbines regulated.  (And made noisy due to the partially-detached airflow letting vortices peel off and blow downwind, turning some of the wind's power into sound.  A little power makes a LOT of sound.)

« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 07:54:54 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

CmeBREW

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2007, 09:00:20 PM »
Not sure if this is what you're still doing-- but putting upto 100Vdc+ into your 12volt battery, is probably unwise. I'm not sure if that will ruin the batt or not.

(I remember your coil windings; 800 turns of 24ga. each coil?)

From the principles I've learned here that would probably cause some problems. Cut-in (12v)would occur TOO quick and so the mill would STALL almost immediately (be unable to begin to turn fast enough to reach good rpm's) , and when a strong wind came it would go out of STALL and spin away TOO fast and burn out the coils and the blades would fly South. Sorta like driving a car down the freeway in only 1st gear.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your set-up. It might be safer to remake the stater with 16ga. wire.  I am still learning basics myself. It seems thats what I remember reading though in that kind of situation.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 09:00:20 PM by CmeBREW »

bigkahoonaa

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2007, 09:13:39 PM »
One step forward, two steps back!  I hocked up relays, rectifiers, light bulbs, fuse, inverter, and my battery.  I can run my computer from the inverter.  Great! So I check the anemometer and spin the wind mill blade, but the RPM sensor is "Off Line!"
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 09:13:39 PM by bigkahoonaa »

bigkahoonaa

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Re: Got a Battery!
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2007, 07:13:52 AM »
CmeBREW :


I think I should have put `software controlled' somewhere in my picture.  Software is going to limit RPM (and Vs) to about 80 to 120 (i.e. 20 to 30 V) by activating lights.  If RPM goes below 60 then lights go off.   If there is enough wind, then RPMs should stay between 60 and max 120.


I like your car analogy.  This IS first gear.  I haven't figured out second, third, etc. gear yet, but I need to know performance in this configuration.  At what wind speed will the mill begin to generate Vs?  Will it be a breeze or gale force hurricane?  It's probably somewhere in between (hopefully near breeze).


I can't test it yet because the RPM sensor is "Off Line."  Help Scotty!  I need something more reliable.  I think the AC frequency produced should be proportional to RPM.  I should be able to tap into one of the coil pairs to get RPM, but it's 5 phase with 10 coils and 24 magnets.  Messy.  Has anyone tried to measure RPM from AC frequency?

« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 07:13:52 AM by bigkahoonaa »