PB-Vawt Update

[feral air]

So there's the frame for my vawt. C- work if I'm the judge but it didn't come out too bad. The vawt spins well and that's what really counts.

You know how they say, "measure twice, cut once"...I didn't really measure at all. Oh well...

Somehow the height came out exactly perfect - in order to fit the vawt in I have to slide the bottom bolt in first and then the top requires just the right amount of coercion and force to get it in too. If the nuts ever come off somehow it should wobble (not really) but not fall down.

The width is a bit more than I needed, with about 1.75inches clearance on either side, give and take.

Of course I had a bit of trouble welding the thin-wall tubing because even on the lowest setting my welder wanted to put holes in it. I did a lot of practice welding on some scrap pieces though. I think it came out ok for someone that's never really welded much before.

I still need to decide how I'm mounting it to the pole and I need to weld on a couple of reinforcement tubes so the frame doesn't move/twist in the wind. I need to paint the frame too so it doesn't rust out at the joints. And the air compressor still needs to get mounted as well, of course.

At this point the whole thing weighs just 37lbs and I'm still expecting the entire thing to be 50lbs or less. And the only reason I really care is 'cause I'm gonna have to haul it up a ladder at some point, which should be an exciting experience.

Anyone want to guess at what the frame use to be?...should be pretty obvious.

[hiker]

air comppressor--just storage for later use--or fridge??

okay--bike rack...

[feral air]

air-lift water pump. You can't see it in the pic but the well is just a foot or so this side of the log in the lower right.

Bike rack, good call. I think I'm gonna hack the tube on the right off and square it up a bit better...the more I look at it the more crooked it looks.

[chadking]

I think it looks like a fun project.  Be sure to get it mounted really solid on the pole and watch for vibration problems.  And be careful hoisting that thing up in the air.

But sometimes the best way to get something done is just to dive in and do it.  Maybe the next one you can measure a little more.

[feral air]

Sorry, it's wasn't a bike rack...

I was a bit dopey last night - long day and lots of ibuprofen for my back. I meant to say that calling it a bike rack gives it more character than calling it the "frame". Thin-wall tubing wouldn't be good for a bike rack anyway since you could get a dull hacksaw through it in a hot second.

I'd give a hint but I want to milk it. Still accepting guesses. ;-)

[feral air]

Yeah, I'm still not quite sure how I want to mount it. Since the pole is a pretty soft wood I'm kind of thinking that putting bolts into the pole isn't a very good idea. A friend suggested I make some hefty hose clamps or use cables as hose clamps if I could get them tight enough...I dunno, it sounds like something like that could work.

I figure to hoist it up I'll pull our van (SnowWhite we call 'er) over to the pole and put a ladder up. I'll get some help to hold the ladder through the whole process and I'll tie the ladder to the pole before I take the vawt up. Or if I buy the trip permit my friend said he'd bring his big tractor over and that'd get me quite a bit closer.

Since it's still on the ground I think I'm gonna fix it up a bit first. If I remove the tube on the right I think I can get it squared up a bit better and weld it back on. And if I screw it up completely I've got more tubing that I could use to make a new one.

So far it has been a pretty fun project! Pretty cheap too since it should pay for itself in a year.

[jht1057]

Pretty Cool,  I am guessing the frame is a cattle gate?

Jim

[CmeBREW]

I hope its not part of a guard-rail at a IRS building!

Just joking. It looks alot like tail pipe for autos to me. Can't wait to see that Big Bear in action.

[feral air]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner! I guess I owe you a drink now, eh?

[feral air]

lol.

If you used that as a tail pipe on anything but a BigWheel it'd just melt away.

[electrondady1]

how about this for a mounting .

put a pulley at the top of the pole .

use some of that track and wheels  used on big sliding shed doors

but mounted vertically

now you can move  the mill up and down as you do design changes and repairs.

[DamonHD]

Glass of milk, obviously...

[feral air]

That would be too slick! If it was a square pole and you planned on using guy wires that's a down-right perfect solution.

I don't think my pole is straight enough but maybe I could shim the rail. I wonder what 16ft of that rail costs...probably not terribly expensive. I'm gonna have to look into it because that would almost be too handy.

I'd need to figure out a good way to keep the vawt from moving side to side though. Guy wires would be the obvious solution but I can't tie 'em to the ground. Not only is it too close to our circle-driveway but my animals would love to use the wires as back scratchers. I could sink an eye-bolt into the nearby tree and run a guy wire to that but I don't think it'd help much.

Maybe a triangle at the top that it could latch into. Even if there's no latch, exactly, if it fits snug that should work. And then I could mount the pulley to that bit of steel. Hrmmm.

[pepa]

    this is the way i did it. pepa

[pepa]

   forgot to mention that lows building supply has the track at about a buck a foot, rollers extra. pepa

[feral air]

Imagine mounting a solid oak door on a pole, some 20ft in the air. If you allow the door to swing back and forth in the wind I doubt it'll be up there long.

..that's what I'm afraid of.

[TomW]

feral;

Do not mistake me for an expert and I am not a mechanical engineer but if the hinge side is fixed to a rigid pole and you guy the outboard side it will not be swinging about. Or mount 2 poles close enough to secure both sides to a track?

I may be getting flaky now so beware.

Just a thought.

Cheers.

TomW

[pepa]

my track setup is made for a machine that rotates but it would be easy to build his carrige to rap around the sides of the tree with room only left for the taper of the tree to the bottom. the track will have to be well secured to the tree as well and the only side movement would be the space allowed for the tree taper and that only on the two sides. i used 1/4 x 2' flat bar stock and molded it around the pole and welded to each side of the track at ten ft. sections with an extra strap at the bottom of the carrage. it should not stress that size tree but if high wind comes let it down. this is the picture of the bigest thing i have had up so for with no problem. the blades are 20' and 10', pepa.





BTW he could a set of wedge shape pieces for the carrage to stop on at the bearing points and it would be very secure, just a thought pepa.

[electrondady1]

i think you could weld/bolt, the wheel carriage and  mounting backets to the rectangular frame you made .

those doors are very heavy and that carrage is very strong.

i don't think the wind load from a 12 square ft swept area would deform the track enough  for it to get free

if the mill is balanced there should be little oscillation.

it may deflect slightly during a change in wind direction.

because your pole is "bent"(hey, nothing personal !)

you may need to make the track all one piece (weld)  and attach the railing so that it would be able to run vertically , even if it needs to kick out at the bottom

then just make up support brackets of what ever length is required.

you must realize by now this is not the only mill you will ever build.

and a slick way to run them up top is ? priceless !

pepa

i knew id seen this  idea on this sight  a while back but didn't know by who.

hope i didn't infringe on a patent

i think it's brilliant.

[feral air]

TomW, unfortunately, wires are a no-go this time. Like I said above, it's too close to our circle-driveway and my animals would use the wires as back scratchers. That's probably the easiest/best way to do it though so I'll probably go that way for version 2, which'll be in a better location.

pepa, I think I get what you're saying about using a wedge...that might do it. I'm just really afraid that if it's allowed to swing back and forth at all that it could wear on the rollers (or the tubing) and break at some point, landing on my animals. That's where they rest in the afternoon heat and where their water trough will be when I'm done.

I wouldn't care if there weren't living beings involved - the vawt could come crashing down and I'd fix it up and oh well, lesson learned. Put living things in that mix and it's a totally different story though.

[pepa]

hi electrndady1, my work is free to everyone if it will help. pepa.

[pepa]

you will have to put a lot of weight on the frame to break the 1/4' cable that is attached to the top of the post by a roller and through bolt with nut. that is unless you are going to push that unit up by hand. there is no way it will fall even if it breaks free from the track, those rollers are heavy amd i have seen them holding up a set of 12'x12' barn doors. if you dont feel good about this method dont do it, there is always the van and ladder. just trying to help, pepa.

[feral air]

The cable will hold it if the rollers break, you're right. For some reason I forgot about that part.

I've seen larger doors held by those rollers too. My boss has one 24'x24' and his neighbor just put up a pair that are even bigger than that.

I still don't think letting it swing freely is a good idea (not as efficient, if nothing else) but I'm convinced it won't fall and kill something now. I don't know why I forgot about the cable...a senior moment, and I'm not that old.

I appreciate the help, for sure.

[Gordy]

Hi, feral air,

I also like he track idea. But as mentioned earlier you will have the swinging motion to deal with, and I'd be worried about the wind hitting the pole and robbing power from the mill.

The thought that comes to mind would be to use 2 tracks a foot or so apart, with a 4 wheeled carriage between them for the mill to mount to. Then mount the mill axis horizontally to the carriage (as seen on the ground). Then fabricate curved track section for the top (like though's used on overhead garage doors, these would let the mill go vertical (and into clean air) at the top and take a lot of tension off of the cable.

Hope this makes sense,

Gordy

[RP]

Consider making a triangle out of metal attacted to the wheeled part of the trolley with the point up.  Also add a fixed (open bottom) triangle to the top of the track.

When you pull it up by the cable the triangle on the trolley will "lock" (wedge) into the fixed triangle at the top preventing movement.

This would be self aligning also

[feral air]

Now that it's been a few days the simple solution came along and hit me in the head. It turns out that I can use guy wires. Diagram...

I went and bought 16' of track and the rollers today. $85. Ouch. The pole is about 21 feet tall so there's a good 5ft difference so that the vawt doesn't get stuck on the track.

I feel like such a smart dumb person.