Author Topic: AC Volts Vs. Load  (Read 1336 times)

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bigkahoonaa

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AC Volts Vs. Load
« on: September 26, 2007, 06:17:30 AM »
In my last diary entry, I noticed a relationship between AC Volts, current, and wind mill RPM. I think what may be happening in my system is something like this:





Genny volts is limited by battery volts.  When wind mill rpm increases, battery voltage limits RPM to 12 VDC.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 06:17:30 AM by (unknown) »

bigkahoonaa

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Re: AC Volts Vs. Load
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 10:38:07 PM »
One of my favourite songs is Pink Floyd's: "Is There Anybody Out There?"  I think I'm getting blade stall at winds of 3m/s.  I'm trying to add PWM to balance RPM and battery charge.  I'm using a PICAXE 28X1 as microcontroller, and input is ala thebackshed.  I'm not an electronic guru, I'm just a scientist.


Mau

« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 10:38:07 PM by bigkahoonaa »

disaray1

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Re: AC Volts Vs. Load
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2007, 11:49:56 AM »
Hello,Hello,Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just knock if you can hear me...what a classic.


 Kahoona- as no-one replied, I think the graph threw a few off. Now, I've zero experience with this and you likely know much more than myself, but the relationship between rotor RPM and voltage is direct. Once rectified voltage is clamped to the battery (12volt in your graph) that is where it will stay and current rises with more rotor rpm. You may well be running into stall based on the graph- voltage rises from 4 volts to cut-in at 14v, at which point the alternator loads and then drops back to below cut-in to start the cycle over. Looks to me that the blades and the alternator are not well matched. Thats my guess.


 Hope you get it sorted!


 David

« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 11:49:56 AM by disaray1 »

bigkahoonaa

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Re: AC Volts Vs. Load
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2007, 12:46:11 AM »
Disaray1


I agree.  Blade RPM and power are not well matched.  That's because in a moment of inspiration, or maybe a moment of madness, I upped coil configuration from 80 turns to 800 turns .  I've magnified everything by a factor of 10.  Instead of getting blade stall at 300 RPM , I get blade stall at 30 RPM.


Volts on the left are RMS values.  I'm trying to develop a PWM system to match RPM vs.TSR.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 12:46:11 AM by bigkahoonaa »

oztules

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Re: AC Volts Vs. Load
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2007, 02:36:44 AM »
hmmmm.

Your graph seems to be saying stall stall stall. You mention that you have upped the coil count by a factor of 10, so stall is inevitable if you clamp it to 12v.


You have several possibilities .

 1. a 5 phase transformer to act as a impedance matching device (like the AWP in my diaries). You can use your rpm counter to switch in the tranny when you feel your up to your cut in if you want to use a pic.... use it to turn on 4 triacs or solid state relays to connect the ac phases to the transformer (the fifth phase can be left hooked to the transformer) This will allow you to use your high voltage to charge batteries........messy but would work and fairly simple.


 2. use a buck converter to bring your 5 phase rectified power down to your 12v level. I'd use a analogue type but I assume you will use a pic for this. I have not built a buch in the power range you may require


 3. Use a full blown push pull pwm to control the output. JW mentions in a previous post to you in your diary that you need a constant stable dc source for the pwm. This is not so. The one in my gallery http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery/album52 is multi kilowatt device, and steps 240vac rectified but not filtered (8uf only to keep the voltage alive during crossover at 0v) down to 50A@36v for traction pack battery charging.

It is analogue push pull design by Stanbury Scarfe in NZ. It tracks the output only, and drives the pulse width very hard when the waveform drops, and lightly when the waveform is at peak (relatively). This means no electro caps to fail, and the power factor is considerably better as almost full use of the sinewave is achieved, rather than only using the peaks of the waves and ignoring the rest (below capacitor level).


 4. a very large resistor in the line and bugger all output.... but at least you could watch the blades run away from stall.... Of course you would need a decent brake to stop them disappearing over the horizon when the wind built up.....:)


 5. The best choice.....simply build a new stator with a realistic no of turns to best match your prop. All the other choices provide answers of a kind, but none as simple and bulletproof as No.5..... go with the flow. There is a reason why people wind 12v stators....... to drive 12v loads.


I cant help but feel some wire and glass work is in order here.


Also when your designing your rpm counter using the ac waveform, test it under load, with the rectifier working. It sends out no noise until it starts conducting, but when it does, it's bloody noisy...and it gets worse as the power goes up. Flux offers useful information about noise filtering techniques.

.......comfortably numb  


oztules

« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 02:36:44 AM by oztules »
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oztules

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Re: AC Volts Vs. Load
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2007, 03:07:09 AM »
oh and I had meant to add the graph is indicative to me of


acceleration without load up to 12v or so, then the battery and rectifier kick in and swamp the blades making them stall and decelerate.... then with no load again, they speed up... only to get kicked in the head again by the battery. So what you are seeing i think is a electro-mechanical triangular wave generator, as your blades gyrate between stall at about the time they may be just getting aerodynamic enough to make some lift, and then feathering stall as they go completely un-airworthy and without load, recover again.......just my take on it though


.......oztules

« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 03:07:09 AM by oztules »
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bigkahoonaa

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Re: AC Volts Vs. Load
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 09:59:10 PM »
Oztules


That's what I was thinking.


Battery and rectifier kick in and swamp the blades making them stall and decelerate .... then with no load again, they speed up... only to get kicked in the head again by the battery.


I think re-wiring the coils (option 5) is probably the best choice but it would be a pain to take everything apart and I'm stubborn (LOL).   I'm trying a PICAXE to add PWM and I'm trying different loads (duty) to get better aerodynamics.


Mau

« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 09:59:10 PM by bigkahoonaa »