Distilling

[Devo]

Does anyone know where one looks to find out if there is any way to legally distill alcohol for fuel in Canada for the do it yourselfer? not interested in alcohol for cunsumption but for fuel...

Been searching without much luck on google, pretty much impossible for self consumption I've seen that just looking for the fuel end.

Devo

[spinningmagnets]

I don't know about the permits...I personally would never get my name on a "watch list" by applying for a permit that they will never give me.

Don't advertise, but if anybody asks, make sure to inform them that you are making it for a boat, tractor, ATV, or generator. If anybody suspects that you are using it for a vehicle that is registered for road use, there is a big fine for failure to pay road taxes (usually part of the fuel price). You can usually add 20% ethanol to the gasoline (for a generator, of course) without eroding the rubber seals in the fuel system. If you want to try a higher concentration, find or make Viton synthetic seals (cut a sheet of Viton with a razor to match existing gaskets).

"off-road" Diesel is dyed red and costs less. It is used for the aforementioned devices. Clear diesel has road taxes added into the price. On occasion, a farmer with a Diesel pick-up truck is fined several thousand dollars for getting caught putting the cheaper red diesel in his truck.

Carbohydrates (potatoes, corn, sugar-beets, etc) can be converted to a type of sugar by enzymes (you can buy these from an internet supplier) mash them up, add a little water and the enzymes. Adding Yeast will then convert sugar into alcohol. You warm the sealed mash-pot just enough to evaporate the alcohol, a tube coming off the lid makes a U-turn and once its headed down, the tube is cooled by wind or water, and the alcohol drips out with some warm water vapor. Use copper or stainless steel, don't use any solder in the joints.

The first few minutes the mash is warming it produces methanol, do not ever drink this, save it for fuel only, it will kill you.

Occasionally burn a few drops, and when the flame color changes, its producing ethanol. To use as a consumable pain-killer and a wound disinfectant, you should triple-distill it and filter it through charcoal, which absorbs most of the chemical byproducts.

[ElSenator]

here is a thread you might enjoy reading by Bruce...

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/8/9/151847/9428

[Coppermaze]

Devo,

 Chat with the still makes over here http://homedistiller.org/forums/index.php They have a subject for distilling fuel. I would do it here but, Atlanta is still busting bootleggers. LOL

  Please delete if this "posting of other boards" is against the rule.

 

[electrondady1]

devo,

 be very careful and check it out before your start

the laws are very different here in canada.

i do recall a well known actor being busted for distiling alcohol for his car

this is during the first energy crisis 70s or early 80s

my understanding is that your require to put up a $500,000.o bond in order to operate

a still.

they may have softened up the requirements put maybe not !

[Phil Timmons]

I am in some other online ethanol groups, as well . . .

From what I follow Canada is a total NO GO.

How far are you from the US border?  We can probably find you a partner down here, if you would like.

As for the advice in this thread regarding low scale and low key bootlegging here in the US . . .

DO NOT DO THAT!!!!

The feds do not screw around, and fines and jail time will really screw-up a major portion of your life -- for very minimal gain.

The permits and inspections are not that big of deal.  The taxes are for highway use and are pretty small, and there are rebates for small producers.  

Thousands in the US do it legally, and there are still plans and detailed info on the internet.

The present pressure is corn prices (if you choose to use corn as feedstock)

Last time I checked the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT.com) it was showing corn at about $3.60 a bushel and ethanol at about $1.70 a gallon.  A bushel of corn gives about 2.5 to 2.8 gallons of ethanol, so that gives ($3.60 / 2.5 = $1.44) only about 25 cents a gallon margin -- and that is before equipment and distilling fuel costs.

So the real trick in doing this profit-wise is choice of feedstock.  

[ghurd]

OT: Has anyone considered dried sugar beet pulp from the feed store?  

It is/was dirt cheap ($4.50/#40 bag, delivered, 5 years ago, IIRC).  Might have a good yield, no idea.

G-

[Bruce S]

Phil;

 You beat me to it :-D , so I will say that I totaly agree with NOT doing the not getting the permits thing.

They will certainly throw you in jail for 5 years around here AND or a 250,000.00 fine.

Here in Missouri it's fairly easy, they've only come out to check my setup mainly because its different enough that they were curious and wanted to see how I could make 160P on the first run and high enough grade without a reflux.

Canada >>> I can't answer that question either, may be a good idea to just go ask the local government ATF official and tell them what it's for, also make sure and explain that you're NOT trying to get past paying fuel taxes , just trying to help in your own little way.

I can certainly put up a new diary with better pictures aof the one I built that is considered "legal" for fuel use by both ATF and Missouri revenuers :-)

NTL has also worked with a formula that I think I sent him.

Not sure the formula would be totlay legal to put up in a diary so private emails would be best. AND I certainly do not want to get on the bad side of the Dans or Tom :-D

Let me know.

G- Yes !!

The sugar beets give a 1/2 - 3/4 better return on mash versus corn.

Other like low-ground ( not sure what that means is what it was called when I emailed a person in North Carolina)tobacco . Both are high in sugar content when allowed to fully mature. Belgium is one of the biggest places that is using sugar beets to process true white sugar without the bleaching process the USA does at 1/5 the energy and it tastes just as good too.

Sorry got long winded

Let me know is I can help further, and yes, my still is once agin fully operational.

Cheers

Bruce S

 

[DamonHD]

Not quite on topic, but have a look at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7047128.stm

It recently became legal in the UK to make enough bio-diesel to run a family car without paying duty, so sometimes governments can see sense if your intentions are right...

Rgds

Damon

[Bruce S]

Devo; Apologies also for going a bit off topic here, but still in the spirit of the dicussion ( pun intended :=))

Damon:

  I saw that as well, very well put & it is nice to see/read about governments understanding ....finally.

There is a some spot over in youtube about a story where the guys explains the long story about how that came about. Seems the canola was cheaper by the liter to buy new than it was/is to buy dino-diesel.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[fungus]

Yes, I heard about that before- apparently it was costing them more in administration costs than they got out of the taxes so the stopped

Could be pretty nice...

[electrondady1]

 sugar beats was the feed stock of the guy up here who got busted.

up around gravenhurst .

he had it growing in third class farm land

best go with hydrogen devo!

[Devo]

Why is it that the countries that are supposed to be the "Free" ones are the farthest from it...? Why is it when you want the info to make sure you are OK you can't just find it on the net. It's mind boggling to me..

Thanks for all the replies, I would love to see how your distilling now Bruce

I'll stick with veggy oil until I can find out more in Canada

Devo

[coldspot]

Bruce S-

"private emails"

I'd like to know/learn more

But I can't see your Eddress when I clicked on user info?

I'm pretty sure that if mine is clicked it shows a bit about me and my user name with my eddress.

Also

"The sugar beets give a 1/2 - 3/4 better return on mash versus corn."

 Thats good to learn, around here they pile the stuff 30' high in the fields and sell it later in the year. Unlike our famous potatoes that require special care and storage to  protect from frost and cold temps, the beet can be left outside for long lengths of time.

 On my route on Tuesdays I drive thru major production areas and see lots of it laying along and in the road.

Sorry, not trying to jack.

 

[Bruce S]

coldspot

My bad , when I first created a login I wasn't able to use our companies email address, so I didn't put one in :-) I have since updated my display , merely replace the at and dots with correct itmes.:-) Thanks for the reminder!!

Devo: Thanks for letting us continue with this needed discussion. Thankfully you have asked a question that is something that I can honestly answer in great detail having done this for more than a few years now.

Coldspot: if you have that much sugarbeets around I'd think you could probably be in better shape than me for making fairly cheap Alky.

Sugar beets take a little more work than the cast-off sugar and stuff that I use so you'll have alittle more work but the outcome during the winter is that the extra heat put off while cooking the beets for the short amount of time needed will also help to warm the homestead.

I actually plan my larger production around winter:)


ALL: I need to make a somewhat full disclosure here!!

Following the advise of a good friend the "Dump Load Guru" Ghurd;


My "Little" plastic still has caught the eye of an online publications to write up a short ebook on how I do this, receipe and pictures.

One of the agreements we have in place is that I can continue to give this out to the people here on this forum, without worry of residual fees, the one draw back is that I cannot give out an online copy once the ebook is up for sale. HOWEVER :) I can give out my receipe and details for free so long as they are not in the ebook format. THIS PART I have in writting!!

With having said that, I would like to continue this discussion without anyone worrying that I may "Steal" their ideas. I have laready sent my receipe to their publicist :=)

I promise to continue giving out as much advise as anyone here asks for free.

Admin: If this is not appropriate please let me know and I will no longer post this information.

Bruce S

   

[Bruce S]

Devo;

I certainly don't have the answer for your question about free and finding the correct info. I can say that you can get different answers from different computers too. I can do a search for something here at work and the same at home and will get different results. Could be the provider "pushing" different results?

I will take better pics than the original ones I posted a while back, have a much better digital camera now :=)

If you're using veggie oil? I'd like to know how your using that?

I have a MB 300turbo D 5cyl, and am trying to decide wether to go the dual tank route or go deep into to making bio-B100 and use that. Both have their merits, car heated veggie once settled and filtered is the most cost and enviorment saving route where B100 is a put it in and go route. Methanol is poison , I've dealt with it in the race car days:-) so no real learning curve there, but still poison and chemicals, it's not IF you have a spill but when.

I do know that since they have switched to low sulfur dino-D my engine is noisier. I currently have a friend that I get the B100 from and when I use that it is so much quieter

I won't hesitate to send you the receipe , but would like to see Canada make it legal. I don't like to even foster the idea of an extended stay at "hotel Bubba" :-(

Cheers

Bruce S

[Devo]

Bruce

As far as the veggie oil , Ive made some bio-diesel for fun (haven't got a diesel to run it in) I also bought the from the fryer to the fuel tank book a few years ago. I will eventually get a diesel & just run filtered used veggy oil.

All these kinds of things interest me, I built a small gasifier out of tin cans a few years ago just to see if It worked(it did).

Outside of wind I get a hoot out of trying other energy methods ideas. I'm a littled miffed on the ethanol issue as I have some containers of wine style liquid from mixing sugar,water,yeast & some lemon juice to raise the ph.Was looking forward to distilling it for fuel but maybe I'll leave stuff at the wine strength which is legal & drink it.......

I read your post on alky d once & a while, very good read I have a book from a freind at work on making mash & building a still , upon getting parts last year I talked to a fellow who had a buddy with a still that got shut down so I wanted to look into it before building...

Heck I just wanted to do a bit to say yeh that does work....should be in New Zealand lol

Guess I am a little off topic,better get my wind conversion up & flying & take some pics.

Devo

[Bruce S]

Devo;

 You're not off topic , this is your diary post:->

Yeah, I would stear clear of getting into trouble with the revenuers.

The only time I add citrus juice is when the ph is off. The other stuff is all that critical. Wine is good for you in moderation anyway.

There a bunch of posting about the entire going ons over at Cananda.com, but mostly for the farmer and big boys. Bummer about that , I thought Canada was more progressive.

The gasifiers are legal:-!

Cheers

Bruce S