8 qt cel and milage results

[tecker]

Ok  returning from what ended up to be 730 miles round trip with a total usage 32 .917 gal of fuel and between 3 and 4 quarts of water .totals mileage 22.17 mpg average over the total miles this is and improvement of 5 mpg over the average 17 mpg I was getting with gas alone( the epa figures for a 4 L ford v6 is 14 to 18 ) .You can see from the pics the anode oxidized big time  . The voltage was between 12 and 15 volts the current at start was 15 to 20 amps and dropped to 8 and 13 at the end of the trip ( probably given th the oxidation of the anode). The stainless  even though not attracted to a magnet did oxidize with the high concentration of oxygen and heat . The millage figures is good news though and the moderate induction of browns gas to an unmodified engine does work with the oxygen sensor in this model .The  engine was taking all the cell could make and I feel sure that if I could have had more volume the mpg would have been better . I connected the tube to the to the crank case vent tube and moved the crankcase vent to the filter housing there is a slight vacume at that point . Here's a few pictures of the cell when I took it apart (Admin I took the AVI s down as promised Thanks ).

 The log started in Cartersville GA where we topped of the tank  -to Rome GA on us 411 _ On 411 to Gadsden AL  we picked up431  to Huntville AL on  Then west on 560 in Huntsville to I 65  south to  Cullman  AL  us 69 to us 78 - us 78 to Tupelo MS.

Where we topped off the tank total 16 .001gal . The trip back was from Tupelo back down 78 to us 13 on us 13 to us 43 to Tucaloosa AL around town there and stayed the night we then took I 20 to Brmingham then east on 20 to Atlanta GA  we hit 285 in Atlanta at 6:30 north on 285 ( no traffic)to Chamblee GA

I dropped off my help and headed back west on 285 to I75  north to 575 then north on 575 to Holly Springs Ga where I filled up 16 .917 gal the Microsoft streets and trips milage agreeded with My odometer read ing within 8 miles ( drove aroung Tuscoloosa a bit ).I'm working on a Google earth to confirm.

One of the pictures is a swab of the inside of the tailpipe with a paper towel no carbon black where  I notice a bit form before the hho induction.

[vawtman]

Hi tecker

 I think Woofs from Huntsville if i recall right.You could have stopped at his place and showed him.

 Cool project.

[tecker]

I think he's up Briminham way may he'll tell us

[Tritium]

It only takes about 1.5vdc to crack a water molecule. You will get much less heat and water vapor by using 7 electrode sets in a series for normal auto voltages. You will have to come up with a different electrode assembly though. Most use 7 pairs of positive / negative plates connected in a series.

Thurmond

[electrondady1]

this is very interesting tecker

carry on!

[zeusmorg]

 Very interesting results! Nice experiment, I'd love to see you take it further.

 More details on the build would be worthwhile to some people not familiar with all this.

 Maybe a new cell using more electrodes would improve efficiency? I see you are noting high heat which is a loss in the conversion process.

 Also isn't this putting some strain on your charging system? Have you noted any lower battery voltages after a trip?

 Keep up the good work, most of these brown's gas systems I've sen do very little if anything to improve overall fuel efficiency. It looks like you hit a sweet spot.

[tecker]

I don't know that heat isn't a good thing just a guess really the drier I installed as we started home removed all the vapor that was collecting in the tube . I my mind the cell should have as few connections as possible . As far as power factor . You have to consider those to be what ever it takes to polarize the mass in between the electrodes.

   

[tecker]

It's amazing how fast this gas remixes to the surrounding air if you don't catch a bubble with the flame when if bubbles up it won't implode.I 'm of a mind the cell has to have a vacuum from the engine  so the concentration moves in a stream instead on mixing in the intake .

[wooferhound]

Yes I'm in Huntsville

woulda loved to have seen ya and talk RE stuff

I thought I was the only person on the forum that was around North Alabama

Where is Home tecker ?

[tecker]

Ball Ground Ga you live in Bearden land that's a unique zone of infuence . I 've been up to Huntsville alot lately to the Bridge street mall ( I do traffic counters and security).Man what would be cool is to throw up some machines and record some data for 24 hours .  

[electrondady1]

just to be clear tritium ,

your talking 7 cathodes in a series configuration and 7 anodes on the ground side?

[Tritium]

No that sounds like a parallel connection. I mean 14 plates suspended in the water with  the upper portion of the plate above the surface. Positive ties to 1st plate at the end of the stack. Jumpers go from the 2nd plate to the 3rd, 4th to 5th plates, 6th to 7th plates, 8th to 9th plates, 10th to 11th plates, 12th to 13th plates and the 14th plate is hooked to ground.

Thurmond

[tecker]

I'm building another anode today with graphite gouging rods I should be testing today or tomarrow (probably tomarrow )using an epoxy from Smooth on that's suitable for tooling (after it's baked) for an insulator. going to close the gap to the cylindical cathode to 1/4" .

[methanolcat]

    I was going to suggest carbon rods, I heard they work well and don't have the problems of other electrodes but I just couldn't think of any kind of common pre-made item that you might try, gouging rods will probably work quite well without deteriorating, keep us posted.

   Matt

[phil b]

Good work Tecker!

"I connected the tube to the to the crank case vent tube and moved the crankcase vent to the filter housing..." Is this where the PCV valve is connected?

The reddish coloring, which some folks call anode mud can be minimized by using neutral plates between the cathode and anode. I bench tested my unit this weekend and I see some of the same stuff. I'm thinking its the iron in the metal that gives it this color.

What type of drier are you using?

[zapmk]

Mud, red to brown in color,is coming from the type of material used.

materials that are high in carbon will give off more mud looking stuff.

materials that are higher in nickel content will put off less mud.

304. stainless higher carbon low nickel, (stainless wall plate from lowes)
     
316. L stainless higher nickel low carbon.
     
     

even 316L will put off some reddish brown muck when in the cleaning phase.

[electronbaby]

Try using PWM to feed your electrolyzer instead of DC. You will be able to vary the duty cycle and find the sweet spot for the size of your plates.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

It's simpler than that:  Just have one side of the plate be the (+) for the cell on one side of it and the (-) for the cell on the other.  You put a stack of plates in the water and only electrify the ones on the end.  For 7 cells you'd have 8 plates and hot up the end ones while the ones in the middle float (electrically).  By being equal sized and equal spaced they equally divide the voltage drop.

When I was looking up "brown's gas" on google I found one of his patents for a gas generator that worked that way.  He had an assembly suspended completely immersed in water:

 - a generally horizontal and rectangular insulating housing with:

 - vertical plates as dividers and:

 - A hole at the top of each "cell" to let the gas bubble out and:

 - A hole in the bottom of each "cell" to let the water come in.

 - The whole thing suspended in water (in an non-conductive container) with power wires connected to the end plates.

The whole thing sets up a potential gradient along the water and most of the current flows between the plates down the stack of cells rather than around them or in-and-out the holes.  (You could extend the insulating housing or nearly close it over the end plates to minimize the current going end-to-end around the cell - and also minimize the galvanic corrosion of the wiring to the electrodes.)

[PeterAVT]

I've also seen it done where the water is first boiled into steam from the radiator or a heat exchanger. Then it goes thru a long tube with a bunch of metal screens in it. Each screen is hooked up electrically. Apparently its way faster and less energy to crack steam into hho since its already partly cracked by heat.

[tecker]

It was rust alright the oxidation of the anode started after 100 miles I decided to weight on some teflon washers for insulator for the gougeing rods and am needing to travel alittle more this week so I went to welding supply and got a couple of pounds of 316 tig rods used one rod and brought it out the side for positive connection .Up and running making a little trip today the gas production is very good volume.Back on the road . Idle  good and acceleration good ,hill climbing seems much better than before .I'll get back to the gouging rods when the teflon washers get here here's an ebay link to Rubber man .http://stores.ebay.com/RuBBeR-HoUsE

[tecker]

Yes that'S the pvc from the oil fill port on top there's goods vacume there at 1000 plus rpm   I moved the check valve ( a break booster checkvalve $5 buck at Advance)

 to a 2 1/2 cylinder stainless container . here's apic alittle jacked up but i'm gona cut it down

[tecker]

That's a good Idea I 've seen the frequency stated in a Meyer interview as 20Khz higher voltage and low amps .I'll try that soon .

[etownlax]

well to make it even more effiecient this is what you do...

Plate-water-plate-water-plate-water-plate

Now its sealed at each plate so that the water can't move between each "cell."

Now this website has good information about creating a cell however it is a website that believes in "ou" power. and thats why I left and stopped going there.lol http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/

They do get annoying for all their ou power crap. REAL ANNOYING.

Hopefully that helps... Plus many of their designs can be cheaper easier and more compact. And Effeciency can be better(with or with out "ou power".ha).

Good Luck

-Randy

[tecker]

An update ; the 316 stainless rod started rusting right away and the Gouging rods are too britle to use in a vehical so I 'm tring # 6 bare copper and ordered some 1/8 titianium rods .

[electrondady1]

it's looking like the speed of deterioration of the cathode is a real design factor .

rather than have it end up as muck at the bottom of the cell,

i wonder if it could be some how deposited on the anode.?

like in electroplating.

then maybe  poarity could be switched and the process reversed.?

[tecker]

  It's the other way around here's a link that has a good explaination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water

they are using platinum ( I don't have any laying around ) you can see the oxygen concentration is the problem the stainless stock pot is in fine shape (hydrogen side) . My son suggested copper . So  I'll give it a try going to be mean green .But copper oxides are conductive I 'll let you know .

[tecker]

 The electrolosys and then reverse polarity sounds good I'll look up a list of possible metal pairs.

[tecker]

 if you could work out the details and saftey for using this with a standarn water heater or refactory what a great dump load .. browns gas melts al cans so fast you have to see to believe.

[electrondady1]

ok,

anode =positive

cathode =negative

sorry about that .

i had just a bit(not enough) of exposure to the plating industry long ago.

i think copper is easy to plate with

copper, nickel, and then chrome .

but since you are not separating the hydrogen from the oxygen

would it not be possible to use some form of a.c.?

[zapmk]

Quote: would it not be possible to use some form of a.c.?

AC, will produce no gas at all, needs DC

[zapmk]

Quote: An update ; the 316 stainless rod started rusting right away.

Are you sure your seeing Rust and not the coating the will forum on the rods.

Now much current is it pulling ?

[tecker]

No big deal the ideas have been buried by most and it's kinda tabo. Enter the problems of these days and people go digging for some answers.

[tecker]

I still have to try the to grab some plused dc from the alternator .