Back in the Saddle again!!!!!!!

[snowcrow]

  Last week I bought a used aluminum framed mountain bike at a yard sale for $50.  The bike is like new, only used a few times, and not setup or tuned up by the owner.  I spent a few evenings greasing, oiling, and tuning the derailleurs, rims, and brakes to get it back in riding condition. Now all I need is to get myself back in shape!!

  A good 30 years have past since I have been on a bike, and it shows!!  I use to go biking all over the mountain passes of Vermont with a 10 speed racing bike.  There was a few times coming down from Middlebury Gap, near the ski area that I approached 60mph, WHAT WAS I THINKING!!! I did call it quits, after getting airborne a couple of times. Well...those days have long since past, and I survived them!!

  Well.. to make things easier on me in by old ago, I've ordered Crystalyte's RoadRunner 4820 retrofit system (48v 20amp with a Rear Hub).  I plan on going with 4 12v 12ah AGM batteries to start and build a Li battery pack when I can afford it later.  As it is, there is a 2 to 3 week wait for a system.

  The link below will give you an idea of its features and performance.

http://www.electricrider.com/crystalyte/roadrunner.htm

Blessings, Snow Crow

[spinningmagnets]

If you already know this, I apologize, but...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4660

Stainless steel torque arms, $25/pair

As the motor powers the wheel forward, the axle wants to spin backwards, and with a high-power 48V system, it will round-out the "drop-out" slots, leading to torn power wires.

[windstuffnow]

Sounds fun!  I considered converting my 12speed using a front wheel kit.   Unfortunately, I live out in the boonies and the range just getting to the store was a bit iffy at best.   Not sure I could still pedal back another 5 miles or so with the hills and all.  

Good luck with your conversion!  Show some pics when it done...

This energy savings bug sure gets deep into your skin once you get started...

.

[tecker]

I bought a roadmaster at wally world and made some changes to the front forks .I have some curry motors but the rotaton is wrong for the chain side of the rear wheel I think I can couple it to the crank though the weight is geting up there.

[snowcrow]

  Thanks for the link spinningmagnets, the torque arms I seen, where I bought my system, were for the front fork only.  The front 48v motor hubs, on aluminum forks without torque arms tends to rip the drop out taps right off the forks, THIS IS NOT GOOD!!  As far as the rear hub goes, I guess it would be a good idea to put one on the opposite side, away from the sprocket and derailleur, just to be safe!!  Using both would be over kill and just add weight.  If you are doing rolling starts you shouldn't need but one to be safe!

  Thanks again for the link!!!

Blessings, Snow Crow

[snowcrow]

  Yes, range is still the biggest issue for ebikes!!  Hopefully it the near future, stores will offer metered plug-in spaces for all EVs!  I think Ben's REchargepod idea would work well for ebikes in parks and shopping malls as well, although you'd need to add capacity to keep everyone happy.

  Ben's REchargepod

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/7/3/8521/14163

Blessings, Snow Crow

[snowcrow]

  A chain drive motor arrangement, without pedals, is thats what you're talking about?  If so, you won't be happy with the range it gets  A friction wheel arrangement, on the front or rear tire, is the next best thing to an e-hub!  It will also give you the option of pedaling too.

  Here is a link to that type of drive system.

http://www.usaelectricbike.com/home

Blessings, Snow Crow

[zap]

I think Tecker is talking about a Currie motor.  They were just about the 'only game in town' till the hub motors started to appear and were a step above the friction drives..  It's a chain drive, bolt on arrangement with a built in freewheel.

http://www.allwebscooters.com/ebike_kit.asp

As far as I know, Currie doesn't make a kit anymore although the kits show up from time to time and they are still in business but now sell only complete bikes, scooters, and parts.

[tecker]

The curry has an 8mm shaft built in controller with a tap for a 5k throttle . I need a clutch but the motor is able to do 12 volt charging at 5 amps Clutch out pedel with front drive hub motor  clutch in apply power over pedals or switch in charging . I have to work that out also.

[snowcrow]

  Thanks for the link zap, now I know what Tecker was talking about.  I think I had seen one before, long time ago.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[valterra]

Snowcrow -

When I first saw those Crystalite motors, the very first thought through my head was:  With some SIMPLE re-wiring, couldn't this be an instant bicycle genny?

I've read tons of posts about brushless DC motors for gennies, or turning a PMA into a motor using the right kind of controller.  

I'm thinking that if I buy one of these for my bike, that I can mount it to a trainer, and generate electricity in the "off-season"?

Right?  Wrong?  

[snowcrow]

  Hi valterra, I don't know about making a bicycle genny, but I have thought about designing a regenerative braking system!!  It would be great to be putting a charge back in to the batteries, while slow the bike on the down hills.  The Dealer said that there is an "after market" regenerative braking system out there, but I just haven't found it yet.

 I guess the bike could be put up on a stand in the off-season and pedaled, just to keep yourself and the on-board batteries in shape.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[zap]

Although I view it as a bit pricey, the BionX system has 4 levels of regenerative braking.

The Tidalforce had regenerative braking but is no longer made and the company who made it, Wavecrest Laboratories has been bought out by BluWāv Systems, who seem to be more interested in the automotive side of things.

Controllers with regenerative braking are also available from  http://www.4qd.co.uk/... almost an open source type of company with many circuits, and discussions of the same, here.

I've had a plan in my head and most of the hardware for an electric assist bike trailer for a while now.  I may be getting a 4qd controller soon.

[valterra]

Yeah, I would like to utilize regenerative braking when necessary.  The biggest downside to full-time braking is that you lose the ability to coast.

Yesterday my wife and I were driving my regular gas engine car around town.  We were in a hilly neighborhood, so for fun I just shut off the engine -

 * * WARNING - shutting off your engine and leaving your key in the "off" or "acc" position will disable your power brakes and also could cause your steering wheel to lock * * *

and put the car in Neutral with the key back in the "on" position.  She kinda chuckled as we coasted down the hill, stopped at a yield sign, and continued on our merry way all sans gasoline.  Just a 2-minute adventure, but I told her, "This is how an electric car would be - totally quiet when you're going down hill."

I'd really like to try some kind of electric vehicle.  The Crystalite hub and bicycle combo seems to be the most straightforward.  I already have a couple old bikes lying around.  But I wonder about it long-term.  Maybe buy the motors and eventually end up creating some kind of four-wheeled vehicle that uses bicycle tires?  That way the hub motors are a good long-term investment?

Not trying to hijack the thread.

Sorry - just not a lot of e-vehicle talk on here, and most of the stuff on the forums dedicated to those things get pretty involved.  I'm just a regular guy.

[snowcrow]

  Yeah!! The BionX is a bit too pricey for me!! The 4qd sounds good though, but the forum spinningmagnets sent me to, http://endless-sphere.com/  has people that have hacked the Crystalyte controllers with good results, so I'll start there.

  I do like your trailer idea, and had thought about it myself!!  You could increase the range dramatically if done right!  The biggest issues are weight and wind resistance. You would have to go with Li batteries, SLA batteries would be like dragging a boat anchor behind you (:[  An aerodynamic fiberglass shell with embedded flexible solar cells and Li battery pack could be a wonderful thing, but is the extra range really worth the cost?

Blessings, Snow Crow

[zap]

I hope you keep us informed on the Crystalyte... I've read some reviews on them and most seem to love them.  I'd need to refinance the house just to get the Li pack!

The reason I'm thinking trailer is because I have 3 different bikes.  My main ride is a trash pile find, pretty much a mountain/road hybrid but I also have a homemade recumbent and last but not least, a vintage Motobecane 10 speed that I'll jump on every now and then.

I agree with you valterra, those other sites do seem to get technical very quickly.  Especially some of the threads over at endless-sphere.  I always thought a ceiling fan might make a good candidate for a homemade hub motor but that kind of thing is way over my head.

Seeing how much the transportation climate had changed lately... maybe a transportation section would be good here?  It seems EV's and wind/solar go hand in hand.

[snowcrow]

 Zap, The "Ping Pack" is what a lot of the guys are using, and the price isn't all that bad!  http://stores.ebay.com/PingBattery

 The Motobecane sounds like the one I had 30 years ago, back when I was crazy enough to try that 60mph stunt.  If you have lots of smooth blacktop where you are, I'd put an e-hub on that Motobecane.  Its light weight and should go down the road like a rocket!!

 I'm not really looking to build a speed bike myself, just a second option!!  This project is my plan "B", just in case plan "A" goes the hell in a hand basket!!!

 I'll post a "before" n "after" and range, etc.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[zap]

Yeah I've read quite a bit on the Ping Packs and he sure seems to get a lot of praise for them.

My thinking seems to fall inline with you... my days of 'speed' are mostly behind me.  It would be nice to know you had a bike that would do 30 or 35mph when you needed it but I'm happy to putz along at a slower pace.

I live in the Denver metro area and it's a very 'bike friendly' place.  Many dedicated paths and lots of marked bike lanes.  I'm not so sure but I think the assisted trailer might even be a loophole when it comes to motorized vehicles on the dedicated paths.(just thinking ahead of possible problems)

I did 20 miles today and about only 3 of those miles were on surface streets and about half of the 3 was on big sidewalks.

On a side note:  The ride was to an open house at a tool supply company with many big tool companies represented.  I got to pick the brain of a DeWALT guy.  He was pretty informed on the Li side of things and knew quite a bit about A123.  It was funny because he even admitted that DeWALT is way over priced.

The new battery technologies are getting very interesting.

[snowcrow]

  I don't think "Johnny Law" will give you any trouble, as long as you don't get throttle happy!!

  By federal law, a max. top speed of 20mph is what defines it as a bicycle, instead of a motorcycle.

  I'm not sure what the Denver laws allow at present, but I'm sure changes are being made to accommodate e-bike commuters, if the "powers that be", plan on being re-elected!!

  People using the A123 packs have been happy at first, but as time pasted, the range begins to drop off sharply. I think it has to do with cell size and construction, not sure?  I'm still doing research on the best battery for my needs!

  Yeah, the new battery technologies are getting very interesting!!!  The new "Battery Management System" (BMS) that Li battery packs require to keep the cells from going "Chernobyl" is a little scary if you ask me!!!

 Using Li battery packs without BMS may result in a catastrophic failure, better known as a "Runaway Thermal Event"!!

  Li cells are thermally unstable do to the material the separator plates in the cells are made of. Excessive heat caused by either over discharging or charging a Li cell will cause this separator plate to fail, thus, turning your battery pack and your bike into a BIG 4th of July sparkler (:[  The BMS is just a glorified band-aid that makes Li cells safe enough to use in EV applications, just my opinion.

  Yes, I am having second thoughts about building my own Li pack!

Blessings, Snow Crow