HF panel update

[Nil]

I've had these panels in the sun now for ~2 years. They are used in New Mexico, in the Catron county area so they get plenty of sun, and not much moisture. They have been feeding a 12v 240AH NI-CD bank. I know they are barely keeping up with the self discharge of these batteries, but for occasional lighting they work too.

Anyway here are some pics.

This 1'st one shows an area on one panel that has a clear patch on it, I don't remember if I received them with this smudge... It's hard to see but it's up close to the aluminum case in this pic.

This next pic is shows the setup sitting on the roof. I used the original bracket setup they came with, but added some screws and washers to make sure the panels couldn't slip out of the clips in the frame. I also wasn't sure how permanent my grandparents would want this so I placed a 2x4 under the panels and stacked ~70lbs of rocks on that to hold the panels down. They have stuck so far.

The next pics show the inside of the junction box on the back of the panels. I'm not sure if the corrosion was caused by the soldering flux or something else, either way I cleaned them the best I could and re-assembled. I need to put some di-electric grease on them when I can.

This Pic shows the panel output... pretty disappointing. I don't have documentation showing them brand new but I'm sure it was twice this amount.

If the picture shows up bad the volts read 13.86, and amps show just under 1 amp.

This is the current battery setup. the 6 lonely cells you see there are not being actively charged, they do get a boost from time to time though.

Also I had received the 1'st gen charge controller. It died a slow death, I'm not sure what the ultimate demise was but I felt that it was drawing more ah than it was helping to keep. Now I have a diode in it's place, I have a feeling that these batteries wont be overcharged without it.

Here's a picture of the nice soldering bits blobbed onto the legs of some resistors.

Anyway I hope this helps someone else by hearing a little first hand experience. I'll leave everyone to their own conclusions.

[DanG]

Excellent post - thank you for your time and effort!!

[ghurd]

Written in stone.  Not much to comment about.

"drawing more ah than it was helping to keep" says a lot.

Nice to see some pics of that PV wire box!

G-

[mixerman]

"occasional lighting " ? I wish I had them batterys! Why only 1 amp out of the 3 HF panels?

[Jeff]

Nil: you definitely would want to clean up those connections inside the terminal! some WD-40 or electrolitic grease is almost mandatory too. then...re-check the output of the panels. You could adjust the panels (at least by hand...temporarily) so they are facing square-on to a nice, clear sun. If they still don't put out close to 1.7 - 2 amps for all three, then we all know the panels are loosing their output. The voltage output looks low too, but should wait until cleaning those terminals, and possibly checking the output of each panel seperately.

This is just a test...but you could take 1 or 2 of those diodes out of the pc board, connect them in parallel (because I don't know the amp capacity of the diodes), and put that in line with the hot (red) out from ONE panel. Then check the output. Check each panel this way. One diode is probably enough due to the output of one good panel, the main thing is not to put power back into a panel. Mine check at 23.2 volts average, and 0.64 amps average. This is with an adjustable tracking mount where I can make sure they're pointing dead-on and getting the most.

ghurd:

I'm getting closer to getting one of your dump load kits. Probably a "super" version like recently mentioned (was it wooferhound?). Do you have an amp-max input figure for the super version? Also, how many amps they draw? I know from looking at them so far, it's probably close to nil. It's definitely less than the H.F. p.i.t.a. controller, but a # would be a good selling point. I need to wait until I get either more panels, or a wind turbine in the works before I can work on getting one of your kits. I prefer getting a wind gen, but I don't have a lot of say in that matter. I do know I won't have a max output from a HAWT/VAWT more than 30 amps - 12v.

p.i.t.a = pain in the ...

[ghurd]

The kit can operate a LOT of power fets.  Each power fet to a seperate load.

Almost no limit to the dump amps.

It can be set up with no dump load for only solar, as in DrDave's dairy.

Shoot me an email if you'd like more info. (Google the web)

G-

[dnix71]

If they are on a hot tin roof, that may be why your output is low. They have to be getting lots on sun, esp. with the light reflected from the roof.

I still have a first gen charge contoller, too. It's the only one I turn off at night.

One set of panels isn't going to keep those big nicads topped off very well.

[Nil]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

These panels are located on our family cabin and I don't travel there as often as I'd like to. During the summer my grandparents snowbird there and only use these for a couple lights and an occasional movie(I wish they would break that habit).

When I go up there I'll double check my connections all around. If I cant grab some appropriate grease by then I'll use WD-40 if it will do the trick.

I had been tempted to use a diode per panel. While I'm trying to set that up I'll check the output of each panel to see if one could be a dud.

The picture I took of the ammeter and volts is the amps into the batteries and the battery volts. I didnt test them unloaded. I know these panels have a fairly high unloaded voltage for being 12v rated(thin film of course) but have a really hard time raising the batteries to even 14.5 v.

I forgot about heat affecting the output. I looked at the picture info and found out the pictures were taken 3/22/08(I'm a professional procrastinator). Out there it would have been 80 degrees at most, defiantly not chilly but I'm not sure if the heat at the time had much affect on the output.

I did leave a lot of variables unchecked, next time I'll take another look at the problem.

I do have more plans for this setup including more solar (I would like ~150 watts) and of course a windmill. Money is the limiting factor now because of my poor collage kid budget; so far all I could spare went to the panels, luckily the batteries were free. Once I get further along I'll have to get a kit from you ghurd.

Thanks again for the comments everyone.

[CmeBREW]

Hello,

   I have been meaning to comment on this posting, but have been very busy lately.

My experience with these "cheaper" HF panels has been similar.

For a couple of weeks they DID do 40watts when brand new into my 12V batts.

But then they began doing less and less and less as the weeks passed by.

The instruction manual with the HF panels confesses:

"It is normal to see up to 20% (percent) degradation in amorphous silicon solar panels within the first 6 months life of the product before the amorphous coating stabilizes." -end quote

Well, my experience SO FAR is more like 50 percent degradation loss.  The 3 panels now do 22 watts (1.6A) max in high, Direct, strong sun in the summertime.

I have bought TWO sets so far, and they both did the same exact 'degradation'.

I hope it don't go down any more!  I got the first set a year and half ago, and the second set about 6 months ago.

I suspect my story is like many other new ones--- you don't have the $500 bucks to buy a quality 80watt solar panel and I was impatient to get started, so I got the HF for a couple hundred.

But now, I wish I had saved and got a quality 80watt $500 panel that will ACTUALLY KEEP doing almost the rated output for many, many years and last for 20 years and then you could sell them and get half (or more) your money back.

I am beginning to fear the HF panels may not last half that long.

Thus, I spent $400  for the two HF sets that together give me 3.2 amps (about 44watts// at 13.5v) in max sunshine.  Whereas, if I had saved and got the quality 80W panel it would be doing 60-70watts (AFTER initial 'degradation) and last for decades. (This is what I have gathered from listening from others who have quality panels here)  I personally have never bought and tested a quality panel yet.

So in this case, it looks like "You get what you pay for".

This is just my opinion and personal experience. I don't mean to offend anybody.

Maybe Others might get a little better results.

 Maybe this is good for new ones to know, since they may decide to save for the quality panels.

Since I have almost no self-discharge with my fairly new (450Ah) battery bank, I still find them useful for about 400-450Watthours (Both sets) most days in the summer. So each day I get 2 or 3 hours of TV and DVD, couple hours of 5 watt lighting, and 12 hours with my 4watt big fan each night.  So they still are useful and a good 'starter' set.

Those big Nicad batteries you have sure have a big self discharge. (over 100watthours a day looks like)

[Errol]

Hi

you could have too big a battery bank for the panels which means you batteries will never charge properly and shorten their life check to see what the correct charge rate is for your batteries. amorphous panels do not give as much charge as silicon but they will charge in lower light conditions. I have only used car batteries 3 in parallel, I know that this is not the recommended but i only use 3 new one bought together and they lasted 5 years and all went at the same time this i know as i tested each one individually and the way they went was that they slowly took longer to charge and lost power quicker. I run my lighting and a small laptop for a tv and can go about 3 to 4 days without sun  

Regards Errol