Author Topic: Being sued by US government and Paiute Indians.  (Read 1844 times)

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Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Being sued by US government and Paiute Indians.
« on: October 04, 2008, 04:27:58 AM »
Got a surprise in the mail Thu of last week:


I'm being sued by the US government and the Walker River Paiute tribe.  Along with, among others, everybody who has a well in much of western Nevada and eastern California.


As far as I can tell so far (if I'm not mistaken):


 - California and Nevada finally settled a dispute of many years and agreed to a division of the water from Lake Tahoe and the Truckee, Carson, and Walker rivers.  And they divvied up all of it.


 - Then the Paiutes and the US government said "WAIT a minute!  Water rights out here are by 'prior appropriation', not 'riparian'.  We have claims dating from the 1930s and older and they take precedence to your divvy.  This reservations irrigation and reservoir, that marine training base, this other big munitions storage base, that dam and reservoir, etc.  And since they've never been litigated and thus proven in court we'll litigate them now."


 - But they worded the claim to include, not just the river water, but also the groundwater in all the valleys the rivers ran through.  So even a deep well in those valleys might infringe.


 - And the federal court said "If you're going to make a claim against everybody with a well drilled or river tap installed since the 1930s or whatever you have to name them all as defendants so they know there's a threat to their water use rights and have an opportunity to argue their counterclaim."


 - So the US and the Paiutes said "OK", looked up every well and whatever in all the relevant valleys in NV and CA, and added a couple thousand people and businesses to the suit.  Including me and my wife.


So it's off to NV to talk with a water rights lawyer.  (Assuming he doesn't have a conflict of interest because ONE of these thousands of other defendants once used his law firm...)


While it's tempting to let the State of Nevada handle it, since my well is under license from them, I hear the state may have overextended its granting of water wells for new development and might be looking for a way to back out...


Why mention it here?  Because the NV place is where I plan to retire and build my alternative energy systems.  If I lose the well it becomes untenable.  (I'd have to truck all my water in from outside the area.)


Upside:  It gives me an excuse to take a break from work for a couple days and do any maintenance and winterization needed at the NV place.


= = =


FYI:


Riparian water rights:  How it's done mainly in the eastern states.  Everybody on the stream gets to tap it, in proportion primarily to stream frontage.  In a drought everybody has to cut back.  Local governmental or rightholder organization mediates and sets quotas.  Rights stick with the land.


Prior Appropriation water rights:  How it's done mainly in the western states.  Historically first user (farmer irrigating, for instance) gains a right to the amount of water he regularly uses.  Next user gains a similar right but subsidiary to the first, and so on.  In a drought, the first guy gets to use his whole right, then the second guy gets to use his, and so on until the water runs out and the later users get to dry up and blow away.  Rights are separate from the land and can be bought and sold.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 04:27:58 AM by (unknown) »

richhagen

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Re: Being sued by US government and Paiute Indians
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008, 12:44:08 AM »
Not overly familiar with this but that prior apportionment seems like a litigation nightmare trying to figure out who historically used how much, and separating those rights from the land.  Seems like there will be a lot of wasted man hours, yours included, getting this all sorted out.  I'm glad we have this 1100 cubic mile plus lake of fresh water next to us here, although even that has its water rights issues.  Rich  
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 12:44:08 AM by richhagen »
A Joule saved is a Joule made!

bob golding

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Re: Being sued by US government .
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 04:05:41 PM »
hi ulr,

 how about something like this?

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/10/71898

not a lot of detail but it looks promising.


cheers

bob golding

« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 04:05:41 PM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

scottsAI

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Re: Being sued by US government and Indians.
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008, 08:45:15 PM »
Better start looking into rainwater catchment.


I hear in CO the gov is even claiming rain water.

I do believe they have over stepped their authority.

UN treaty forbids governments from regulating AIR, except to protect from polluters.

Until rain hits the ground its part of air.


If the only water you need is for a household, rain water is not bad solution.

If more is needed that could be a problem.

Read about a guy in a desert collecting all his water in 3 months and kept a large garden watered.


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 08:45:15 PM by scottsAI »

coldspot

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Re: Being sued
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 08:55:32 AM »
ULR-

 Well,(pun,lol)

That sucks, I also think you should get into

the rain water keeping, before they start to act like CO.

 "prior appropriation",{catch the rain now)

 that is how it is done wrong in IDAHO.

 I have strong feelings about the ground water

and think that the Fed's should make the

"Dry Farmers" go back to being just that and

shut off the pumps draining the Aquifer and let them farm

 like they did when they got the land.

 Rain watering only!


But that is just my feelings and I have no land or water rights and might never get any,

(Two years, One Month, One week and one day, till my youngest son turns 18, {If the two youngest sons [17 and almost 16]go to school I'll pay until they are 19}, and for the first time since Dec. 1987, I'll get to have my whole pay check) !!!!!!!!!!


$0.02

:)

« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 08:55:32 AM by coldspot »
$0.02

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Being sued by US government and Indians.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 10:04:22 AM »
Rain water catchment isn't all that practical.  It's a high desert at 5000 feet, in the rain shadow of the sierras - and we're downwind of a pass at over 8,000 feet, which means that's the lowest notch in the mountains.  So the water is squeezed out of the prevailing winds and dumped on the mountains.  (Even in a heavy storm the clouds come down the hills a bit as fog and then clear.)


We get a trace of rain or snow occasionally - when something like a hurricane somewhere makes the wind come from the southeast, bringing a trace of moisture over the southwestern deserts to sprinkle out as it climbs our side of the sierras.  But it's just enough to keep the sage from dying, and to splash the sand onto the bottom couple feet of the siding before we put in eavestroughs.  It's not to provide significant drinking water, let alone bath and dishwashing.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 10:04:22 AM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

scottsAI

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Re: Being sued by US government and Indians.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 12:25:24 PM »
Ungrounded Lightning Rod,

Tough situation. This might be interesting:

Been working on extracting water from air.

Goal is 14% humidity considered the best, so plan to beat it.

Takes lots of air to make a lb of water.

Energy input is very low.

Interestingly condensing water gives off energy, cant quite make it work on that... yet!


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 12:25:24 PM by scottsAI »

boB

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Re: Being sued by US government .
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 09:44:27 PM »


 how about something like this?

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/10/71898

cheers

bob golding


We (midnitesolar) have one of these watermaker units.  It's basically just

a de-humidifier with water purification built in using combinations of

filtering and UV treatment, etc.  Surprisingly, most of the patents for

this kind of stuff are in the purification processes.  The small desktop

unit we have makes around 4 gallons per day I think it is...

 25% relative humidity minimum required as a general rule.


Sorry about this lawsuit...  I bet (at least hope) you come out good on this one.


boB

« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 09:44:27 PM by boB »

domwild

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Re: Being sued by US government and
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2008, 01:42:19 AM »
Ungrounded,


Sorry to hear of your predicament. If it is of any consolation for you: Here in Oz there are some states charging farmers for the rainwater in the dams or owners of plantations for the water the tree plantation uses (non-irrigated!).


The title to farms in Oz is still freehold and riparian rights apply. Native title claims only apply to Commonwealth land.


"You only live twice, once for your life and once for your dreams" said Ian Fleming (James Bond) and let us hope your dream of establishing an RE place does not turn to ashes.


Good luck!

*

« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 01:42:19 AM by domwild »