Author Topic: A day to work on it. (Read 4365 times)

Electron Pump · « **on:** February 25, 2009, 03:20:42 PM »

It is charging though slowly. And the voltage of the battery seems to be jumping around. I have only been charging, I haven't used off the batterys at all because I wanted to see how long it would take to charge up. My last log which was at 10:45 last night was at 12.5v. Which is .16 higher than when I started. Of coarse I have only been putting between 1 to 5 amps into the batts. And it is a 225AH battery so I can expect to be charging for a long time. I'm very happy to be in the black though. I am a producer in minority.

The thing that I am worried about it the vibration it gets right at cut-in. It is so smooth and quiet up to then and it goes to shaking. Looking at it, it doesnt seen to be moving a whole lot but you can see it vibrate. When it gets to about 2.5a it starts to smooth out some and by the time it gets to 5a its more of a hum than a vibration.

The vibration starts so high I dont know how to ballance it. I thought I did a good job of sanding the blades and smoothing the leading edges. I cant convince myself to go up and take it down so I'm going to go up there and batten down as much loose stuff that can raddle as I can.

Today the winds are low but tomorrow they are calling for 30MPH gusts. I wish I knew how to ballance it better. But I digress, Instead of talking to this computer I should be out petting the batts. Absolutely beautiful weather here today, 80's winds 5 to 10.

TomW · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:41:26 AM »

pump;

That "vibration" you hear at cut in is pretty normal to one extent or another it is there on every turbine I have flown. If it is smooth and not some gross shaking it is unlikely a balance issue. I consider it the sound of power being produced. I think of it as a "burring" sound. A quick and dirty test of this theory would be to remove the load momentarily and see if it goes away. If it goes away with no load you know it is not balance. Careful, it might spin up very fast with no load so try it in mild winds with minimal power draw.

Just my experience.

Tom

ghurd · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:43:46 AM »

Charging is good!

Can you update the windmll info?

Six new 60" dia Air-X knockoffs?

A brushed DC treadmill motor?

Vibration at around cut-in is normal for 3-ph alternators,

and single-ph does it the entire time after cut-in.

I don't recall ever having that much vibration with a brushed DC motor.

Nearly up to 32F here. Maybe the ice on the parking brake cables will thaw enough to release today.

G-

wooferhound · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:03:15 AM »

is the output of your motor going through a Diode or a Bridge Rectifier before going to the battery ?

Electron Pump · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:05:43 AM »

Hello Mr. Tomm, and G., alwayse good to hear from yous guys. Thankx for commenting.

G, you asked me to update the windmill. I'm not exactly sure how to do that. Do I go to user info and post some new photos or is there another place. I was reading where someone got on to someone for starting to many strings or posts and since then I sure have been trying to watch me P's and Q's. Thats one reason I started in on the diary. I thought I would be more out of everyones way over here.

What ever I can do to help yous guys. I dont know if you understand just how much you guys have helped me out. Thankx and We'll talk again soon.

ghurd · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:28:06 AM »

Why not just telling us how it is now?

Is the diode / bridge on the tower or on the ground?

I have a silly idea that may help the vibration, if it is a brushed DC motor and if the diode is away from the motor. A capacitor on the motor. Needs to be a high voltage cap.

Might not help.

Just seems strange a brushed DC motor is bad enough to shake the tower.

G-

Electron Pump · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:31:00 AM »

Yes sir, I have an Isolator diode to keep from "motorin". I have a pic of my control pannel in my user info titled control pannel and you can kinda see how I have stuff set up. I dont have a charge controller. I have manual switches. The computer power supply box in the middle with the big fan on it is my dump-load. The box on the right has two 50a race-car emergency cut-off switches wich I use to change from charge to diversion.

Electron Pump · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2009, 12:56:49 PM »

Mr. G, my isolator diode is away from the gen. I have it on a heat sink mounted near to my control box. I heat sinked it because I noticed that it was softening the electrical tape I had wraped it in. It wasn't getting real hot, but I had this cool little heat sink and I had seen one on E-Bay that came with one so I mounted it up.

ghurd · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:37:42 PM »

Great! If you want to do some experimenting that is.

The vibration comes from current flowing, then not flowing, then flowing...

Every time it flows it causes a small impact.

Transformers work the same way. To reduce the impacts, capacitors are added to the rectified output.

Be interesting to hang a cap on the motor.

Maybe 47 to 100uF and 100V min?

Sounds crazy, even to me, but it might help.

I will send a cap if you will try it.

ghurd (one) and yahoo dot con is why I had 0 spam today.

Mr G is my Dad.

G-

Electron Pump · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:19:55 PM »

G, I sure would try it. I'll tell ya, I thought I was going crazy, and wouldn't have told a sole but I have on a few ocasions when concentrating on the amp meter and the mill go to vibrating... I would have swore the positive lead from the isolator heat sink.... would move! Electricity doesnt move things. I may have been halucinating but the way you explained how that vibration begun makes me alomst think that I did see that wire move. Talk about ghosts in the machine.

G, my E-mail is kellyperry1971@yahoo.com Zap me over an Electronic message and we'll discuss that other stuff.

Airstream · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:57:21 PM »

I don't know what diode bridge you are using but I know not all diodes are created equal - light duty small value bridges will instant-on across the entire junction area, very similar to a strobe light firing, that creates nearly a square wave which promotes inductive percussion vibration and noise.

Heavy industrial diode junctions often are seeded (checkerboard, wave) across the active layer to allow the junction a gentler ramp up to full conduction that reduces hammer on the rest of the circuit with instant on / off current flow.

I've lost the white page PDF I had in the last PC hard drive crash but limiting the surge current as the device enter conduction keeps those 300V 300A 3-Phase bridges alive when 100,000-plus wattage surges are likely.

Electron Pump · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:54:12 PM »

The blocking diode I'm using is a 40a 600v diode bought off E-bay.

Airstream · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:21:40 PM »

It would be interesting if your report of vibration becomes modified when using a different rectifier, even a small square bridge type just for a pedestrian test - the softer on is not automatically engineered into every high voltage/current device.

Another source of vibration is cancellation of coil, coils fighting each other...

Electron Pump · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:33:04 PM »

You said RECTIFIER. I dont use a rectifier. Did you mean isolator diode? Remember I have a little D/C treadmill genny. Im only dealing with 20 to 100 watts. Though I did see 175ish not to long back.

wooferhound · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2009, 03:33:11 AM »

If your motor generates AC power on the output, then a Bridge rectifier will clean up that vibration considerably.

wooferhound · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26, 2009, 03:37:33 AM »

The difference between the term diode and the term rectifier is merely one of usage, i.e., the term rectifier describes a diode that is being used to convert AC to DC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode

Electron Pump · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2009, 03:26:40 PM »

Wow, and just when ya think you've got things figured out. I'm confused. I've got some more reading to do.

tecker · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2009, 05:37:45 PM »

Your setup is correct . You just needed a blocking diode. If you had a scope you could look at the voltage and see if there's a problem . See if it happens at a voltage rate or a certain Rpm .If rpm related it would be a little out of balance . If it happens when you load it down possible commutator problem . I didn't see a cover on the brush end water may be causing problems

Electron Pump · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2009, 07:02:58 PM »

Well I tell ya, we had a slow stint in the wind yesturday. I pulled her down and went over everything. All seemed to still be good and tight. The pole had a little space where the yaw bearing slides down into the tower pipe, so I ran a self tapper threw the inner and outer pipe. That instantly solved 80% of the noise. I think it was having a resonant frequency thing with that little bit of slack.

Also I noticed one of the blades was a little out of plane, so I worked on bending that back into plane. I did pretty well. When I get down and look at it on edge it is lots closer. The same blade had a little bit of outta-twist that I worked on twisting back.

Today when ramping up to cut in, on threw, and past the vibration was nearly completely gone. But when slowing back down under cut-in it would do the same bobble but not nearly as bad. We had some real good wind today, I saw 10a on at lease two occasions. We had a new record high temp set here today 96deg.

Airstream · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2009, 08:21:23 AM »

Good find, remember that vibration is still there and is now furiously working at finding the next weakest link, keep an sharp eye out : (

Windchill: -14 F (-26 C) here right now. Savor the heat while you can, I'll remember this ^#$@ cold next summer for sure, Spring is 3 weeks away!

Electron Pump · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2009, 11:02:28 AM »

Well thankx for commenting Airstream. I am watching. What do you think I'm going to need to do to ballance them. Individually weigh them on a postal scale. If I was to pull it down and motor it to the speed it starts at its spinning to fast to see which one is throwing out.

What if I was to take one of my other treadmill motors and beat the magnets out of it and put my rotor hub and blades into the mag-less can and try to ballance it? I dont know. Wahh...Wahhh... GooGoo..

Any advise?

Electron Pump · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2009, 12:37:29 PM »

Checking todays weather, they are predicting 40 MPH wind gusts tonight. I went ahead and went up there and took her down. I'm making chicken green-chili enchalada cacerolle this evening for the family so I'll have to work on ballancing issues at a later date.

Tuesday we are getting all new carpet so I have to start emptying out this house real soon and I'm doing the tear-out of the old carpet and pad.

Wish me luck and I'll be posting on my ballancing work in the near future.

Crusader · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2009, 03:09:46 PM »

Ceramic tile !

Airstream · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2009, 03:29:54 PM »

I found this recent BMP upload in your files & photoshopped it.. Is this the set you are speaking about? If it is 'I' think you are nearing the limits of PVC usage with those lengths, widths and thickness etc. wise.

For balance, Zubbly & others have a pendulum method that works, but perhaps balance & alignment of PVC is topic worthy of new diary post?

Electron Pump · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2009, 06:48:32 PM »

No sir, that was an alternator I was working with which diddnt work. My rotor threw the magnets off and bunched up inside. Thats the little yard stand that holds stuff for light duty test and ballance.

I'm using the same body to hold my treadmill motor that I have up on the tower.

I'll tell ya one thing though, 3 of those very blades spun a 7099 RPM treadmill motor up to 2 amps.

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Author Topic: A day to work on it. (Read 4365 times)