Author Topic: Interesting combo VAWT  (Read 3565 times)

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DamonHD

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Interesting combo VAWT
« on: June 14, 2009, 09:05:46 AM »
Hi,


Given that VAWTs have various limitations that most of us agree on, this is interesting to me since since it combines Darrieus (for efficiency) and Savionius (to self-start) and MPPT to extract as much useful energy as possible:


http://www.hi-energy.com.tw/selection-5-english.htm


Now, I don't yet have the eye to see at a glance from their windspeed/power chart how 'optimistic' they are being, but at the moment my bull$#|+ detector is not firing.


And given the size of the thing it has the potential I suppose to make interesting and actually useful carpark art in windy areas.


Anyway, I'm not selling them, nor indeed buying for my windless site!


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 09:05:46 AM by (unknown) »
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ruddycrazy

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 04:52:46 AM »
Bugger Damon,

             Now you got that twisted vawt bug going again in me. I reckon one could easily DIY one of those egg shaped vawts, set the 60 degree pitch on the top and bottom stays, grab some 10mm(3/8") thick pvc and use the center stay to form the egg shape. Put the pvc on the top an bottom stays and grab the angle grinder to make the airfoil.

            Well afterall Vawts are just yard art but what really gets in my craw is that ripoff mob that stung me for my house RE getting a govt grant to develop the miller vawt.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1630859.htm


That picture they show is nothing but a spiced up version of a classic miller turbine which used 2 sheets of old iron and some scrap steel and it was used for years over here in Oz for water pumping.


Well if the scrap yard has some cheap plate just maybe this bug might produce yet another time wasting project.


Cheers Bryan

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 04:52:46 AM by ruddycrazy »

DamonHD

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 09:26:13 AM »
Well, I'm happy to be providing your intellectual and artistic stimulation, though I'm sure that there is nothing new in this D/S combo!


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 09:26:13 AM by DamonHD »
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TomW

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 10:15:55 AM »
Seen that style way back in the 70's or something. Nothing new but computer graphics.


Whats the point?


Sigh, I thought you were a sharp fellow.


Anyway.


Tom

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 10:15:55 AM by TomW »

DamonHD

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 10:48:17 AM »
I may have been sharp at some point...


But anyhow, I thought it looked interesting, probable vapourware lawn-art-status notwithstanding!


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 10:48:17 AM by DamonHD »
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TomW

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 11:34:21 AM »
HD;


Just poking you.


Tom

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:34:21 AM by TomW »

dnix71

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 09:21:11 PM »
The French (Windela) use those to power street lights. I posted a link about it, but it was immediately deleted. The French version includes solar pv and batteries, so even with no wind or sun for 4 days, you'll still have light at night.


I don't know how much noise they make. It might get annoying listening to swish/swish/swish all day long at work or at home (if you lived next door to one).


Makes a lot more sense than building more nuclear power plants or burning coal.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 09:21:11 PM by dnix71 »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 02:12:07 PM »
Ought to work.  But poorly.


Seems to me the savonius is taking up far too much of the swept area and interrupting the airflow between the darrieus blades during the highest-power part of their rotation.


I've seen a similar design where, instead of being proportioned like a pair of big juice cans the height of the darrieus, the savonius starter-rotors were proportioned like tunafish cans, one at the top, one at the bottom, leaving all of the "eggbeater" except the narrow part near the ends of the blades (which does about squat) open to the wind.  THAT should have essentially the Darrieus' efficiency with the Savonius' stall torque to make it self-starting.


Also the savonius rotors in this one seem exceptionally wide.  They have a max power TSR of about .8 while the darrieus is in the 6-7 range.  So the darrieus rotor should be almost ten times the diameter of the savonius, or maybe 6-7 if the darrieus is supposed to spin up the Savonius until it just spins at a rate that makes it transparent to the wind.  Looks to me like a bad mismatch.


(Then again maybe I haven't computed it right and the "transparent RPM" is much higher.  Or the Savonius sucking out power in the middle helps to even out the vibration of the Darrieus' torque vs. angle.)


If I were doing one I'd go for either the tunafish-can proportions for the savonius starters or use a helical darrieus maybe with 3 blades), which is apparently self-starting due to always having a blade segment with forward lift.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 02:12:07 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

mdntdncr

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Re: Interesting combo VAWT
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2009, 07:42:56 PM »
It was my understanding in previous reading that the savonius do just that.  They are designed to have it self start and when the darrius develops a rate of speed that's too high and may cause potential damage to the blades, the savonius acts as a brake through it's wind drag.  I hadn't quite seen one combined, but I, too, thought they'd be smaller.  Personally, I intend to try the Helical darrieus also . . assuming I can find time.  I may start with the giromill first to work on the shape of the blades.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 07:42:56 PM by mdntdncr »