Author Topic: 4kw motor Conversion (Read 9512 times)

ruddycrazy · « **on:** October 31, 2009, 02:39:54 AM »

G'day guys,

Yesterday at work I scored a 4kw motor perfect for a motor conversion. The bore is 115mm and the rotor 145mm so plenty of space to fit 60 off 1"x1/2" round neos.

The motor will need a total rewind as the wire was corroded, the lamination's are fine though. The present wire is 0.8mm thick and hopefully I can get enough turns of 1.2mm wire in to suit 24 volts as that is my house voltage array. There was 124 turns in each slot so I'll need to do a heap of research of zubbly's files to work out how many turns i'll need.

Cheers Bryan

SparWeb · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2009, 10:17:42 AM »

The sprit of Mr. Z must be watching over you. It is a good score! The 6307 bearings will take a lot of abuse, the rear fan shaft can be used for a brake or a RPM encoder (or both), and that's a big mounting flange. With a re-wind you can select everything you want! Poles, number of turns, voltage/current everything. You can even skew the stator laminations once you get all the wire out.

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2009, 02:02:49 PM »

G'day Steven,

When I saw that motor I just knew it had to be destined for a Zub conversion. The 6206 rear bearing is a bit worrying so like I did with my 1.5kw conversion I'll put a 5206 double ball bearing in it's place. It isn't a hard job to extend the rear cover to accommodate the wider bearing. I will be going with round neo's on a 10 degree skew and the 1" ones might be a bit too tight of a squeeze so I will look a 3/4" ones too.

I'll use this diary post to log my progress on this conversion and I have also done a thread in the RE section of the electro-tech forum where I hope to do a basic guide on doing a motor conversion.

Cheers Bryan

willib · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2009, 04:10:15 PM »

Hi Bryan, Yes thats a nice find !

Congrats !

.

Bill

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2009, 03:01:02 AM »

G'day Guys,

Well got all the wire stripped out of the motor and I did find some light rust on the lamination's but not enough to really worry about. Tonight I sat down with autocad to workout the best magnets to use with the 70mm wide by 140mm long pole area. with 3/4" round neo's I could only fit in 15 with plenty of gaps so I' tried with 5/8" ones and managed to fit 32 in nice and snug.

So by using 128 of the 5/8"x1/2" N42 Neo's I will endup with 25.728 cubic inch's of mags which should be enough. I will need to wait untill next week before I can order the magnets and just hope they arrive before xmas.
So hopefully as soon I can get the magnets I can try the one wire test and see what the thickest wire I can use to suit my 24 volt array on the house.
Cheers Bryan

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2009, 12:47:05 AM »

Well Guy's got an email from china today, my 200 16x13mm N50 round neo's should be here before xmas. So here's to hoping they get here as I will have time over the xmas break to finish off the stator then do the 1 wire test. This will dictate the thickness I use for the space in each slot.

Cheers Bryan

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2011, 12:56:57 AM »

G'day Guy's,
Finally got around to installing the first pole on the rotor, it was fun getting 21 of those 16x13 N50 magnets down, especially as I kept getting the poles wrong. I finally got all the mags down and the counter bored holes did make the magnets sit flat. Then I put some fences up and mixed some epoxy with the some Q-tip to thicken it up then poured the epoxy in and kept ramming it back in until it started going off. With a 5 day weekend here I did note the time I did the epoxy so in the next few days I'll have the rotor finished and be ready to do the one wire test.

Eh this project has been awhile since I last visited it so I do need to include some pic's of the work done in my IRC gallery.

Cheers Bryan

SparWeb · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:42:17 AM »

Hi Bryan,

Looking forward to more progress on it.
Did you ever consider putting a skew in the laminations?

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2011, 07:49:40 AM »

Hi Steven,
The way the housing was it wasn't possible to skew the lamination's so I machined up a new rotor and machined in pockets on a one lamination skew. Without the pockets there would be no way I could place the magnets and get them to stay put. Although this is in the true Zubbly tradition I do want to throw my twist in. Even if the epoxy doesn't stick to the magnets the counter bores will hold the magnets I'm sure.

When I do the second pole I'll keep you guys updated and there is a lot more to come.

Regards Bryan

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2011, 08:45:30 AM »

** Moderator note. Not withstanding the general "no changing history" policy, this comment (and several others to follow) serve no useful purpose.

TomW · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2011, 08:50:46 AM »

Hmm what did I miss?

Not enough comments?

Tom

bj · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2011, 09:00:18 AM »

I missed it as well, then. Hope it is all a misunderstanding, as the loss will be just that, a loss.

DanG · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2011, 09:00:26 AM »

Yimmenys whiz B! - in this hemisphere its spring fever time, folks be hating their desk chairs with a passion!

Steve Trumann · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2011, 09:35:10 AM »

What brought all this on? I was hoping to see more of this project so I could learn how to do it.

Steve Trumann

TomW · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2011, 10:09:34 AM »

After a loooong winter, Spring has finally kind of almost arrived up here so not inside much myself like all winter stuck indoors.

Don't hold that against us!

Tom

Basil · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2011, 10:15:44 AM »

I have a 2 HP 3 phase motor I plan to do. I was hoping to learn some thing.
Guess I will have to look up Zubbly's files.

artv · « **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2011, 12:19:44 PM »

Hi Ruddy,....I don't understand what the problem is???

I was really looking forward to seeing this project through to the end.

I hope you were just having a bad day and will continue to post your progress.

maybe the lack of replies...if thats the problem...is people are just waiting in anticipation....after all, it is stretched out over two years...

looking forward (hopefully) to more postes........artv

JW · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2011, 03:11:33 PM »

** Moderator note: this comment quoted removed text and added nothing to the thread.

dave ames · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2011, 02:50:08 AM »

Bryan,

Anzac emotions and VB devotions?

how bout a dust off and redo, i'm interested

Your Shout

cheers, dave

12AX7 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2011, 05:48:46 AM »

I too have been keeping an eye on this project, didn't post anything cause I had very little/nothing to offer..

I guess ruddy must have found a "happier" place to hang his hat?

ax7

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2011, 01:24:36 AM »

Hi Guy's,
First can I start off with a full apology to J.W. and TomW for my outburst previously. If you guys could delete from my outburst comment up to this post it will be appreciated and once that is done delete this first part of this post. As time pasted I did realize I did make a big mistake and if you guy's wanna kick my ass go ahead.......

Hi Guy's,
Got the last pole done on the stator and man it was fun getting the magnets in, I did put one magnet in the wrong way around and getting it out the magnet basically ex poled. I was damn lucky my finger didn't get in the way. The pic below is of all the poles installed now I need to make a former mold so I can cast the whole rotor in epoxy. I do have a small sheet of the same stuff the Mythbusters use for protection and I do know it's overkill but eh it was free. I'll cut out both end sections on my bridgeport to suit the outer mold which Marg's provided when I asked if she had an old container. It turns out if I can get the mold purfectly central I won't need to do an Oztules and magnetize my toolroom lathe.

Cheers Bryan

bj · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2011, 08:17:24 AM »

Oz isn't the only one, I swear that every tool I own is magnetized now.

Steve Trumann · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2011, 10:47:27 AM »

Glad to see you back on with us. Keep up the good work on you motor conversion.

Steve Trumann

oztules · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:02:26 PM »

Hi Bryan,
Nice to see it back on track. Will be interested in the final outcome here.

Is the first conversion still flying?

"I won't need to do an Oztules and magnetize my toolroom lathe."....... he he he.... yes it was true. I had to use a microwave transformer split open (pulled the "I"'s from the e's) being driven of a 36v ac source to degausse all the equipment, and tools. It was tragic trying to work with all your tools and chuck trying to mop up all the swath..

....................oztules

dave ames · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2011, 12:54:02 AM »

Hey Bryan,

looking good!

curious on your thoughts regarding the planed full potting of the rotor? ..have you found this to be a required step? or is this more of a cosmetic factor to pretty things up?

following along ...someday i hope to be able to tackle something of this sort

cheers, dave

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2011, 04:07:31 AM »

G'day Oztules,
Yea mate my first motor conversion the 1.5Kw one is still going strong and with yesterdays weather the 20 amp gauge was pegged out again.

Allo Dave,
As I did the same with my first conversion of potting the rotor full I'm going to do the same again, basically with those 84 off N50 neo's the force going into and out of the rotor when needed will be huge. By having a solid epoxy mold around the magnets does offer some protection for them and having them fully potted will ensure no moisture can come into contact with the magnets. The outer mold I have is 1mm under the internal diameter of the motor so by machining up 2 disks to snuggly fit the internal diameter of the outer mold hopefully I can have it running true so no machining will be needed. With the top disk I'll mill some slots in for the epoxy to pour in and grease everything up so I can get the mold off later. Once all this is done I can then do the one wire test and I have have about 10kg's of 14awg(1.6mm) magnet wire here. As my RE voltage is 24 volts I am hoping I can 2 if not 3 in hand of that thick wire so I can get the resistance down. I went and got a drum brake to use on the front of the motor and designed and made a master cylinder to drive it so if I need to shut it down and keep it shut down the drum brake will do a decent job.

I got a heap of 3" hydraulic heavy wall tubing brand new for a couple of slabs of beer so the tower height will be about 18 metres with a 15 metre gin pole. When I get around to testing the conversion I'll use the pto on my ol' fiat tractor to drive it as both of my lathes will be too small to get a true picture. I reckon 45HP should be enough grunt to see what the genny can produce.

Cheers Bryan

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2023, 01:51:44 AM »

G'Day Guy's,
Well i did have to go back to '11 to find this post as I did think I lost all my info with all the craps I went threw through the years.

I did get to lathe test this conversion quite a few years ago where I hooked 2 off truck batteries in series to make 24 volts and when it to 240 rpm I saw a glimpse of 89 amps them the VFD driving the lathe cut out. Tried it 3 times with same result and that old 100 amp bridge rectifier let out the magic smoke so that was the end of the testing.

Now as my planned upgrade to the farm is going to be 48 volts and I did buy 3off MTTP and Inverter boards including all the brain boards from thebackshed forum where this 4Kw motor is going to be in the mix and it may need a rewire to suit 48 volts.

To get this conversion out of the motor I do have a 'G' sized Warman pump bearing housing which weigh's a few hundred Kg's , I just my tractor with my lifting jib and a chain block and when the event happens it's quick loud and finished.

This weekend I'm getting my ol' MS390 chainsaw pull cord fixed and i have my eye on a seasoned redgum branch for some 2 metre blade slabs as that is my planned blade size for this conversion. 4 metre and NO tail as with a conversion once the max current in the wire is reached the eddy currents come into play and the turbine reduces power.

A brake will put on as a safe guard and the finished turbine will have a working brain to report back the stats.

Cheers Bryan

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #27 on:** March 11, 2023, 04:02:33 AM »

Well first steps done this morning into the chainsaw store to get a new pull cord setup where the guy said mate your chainsaw is over 20 years old and I said well if you can't fix it I'll go to one that will, anyway 20 minutes later he came up with second hand unit with new cord and $30 later has restored my faith in the shop as a few years ago they tried to ride this chainsaw off so I got it back and fixed it myself.

I had to take my daughter down to town to find a car and found a Mazda 3 for 6K so a good first car for a 18 year old girl, first car look was a '09 i30 2 litre diesel for 6K off the same guy where I bought my merc for 3K he did say with inflation everything is double now and no more 3K bargains. Went to another car yard where the guy's were more interested in my merc than selling us a car.

Well as today is written off tomorrow time to get my MS390 fired up and got have some fun as 3 slabs over 2 metres is needed of redgum so I can make the blades, if this branch won't do all three I'll cut down a few branches and use them after a bit of aging.

My plan is use the Oztule method of making a guide to cut the blades as redum is one hard wood to work with but I do reckon it will make the best blade. For us Aussies of course

I'm going off memory here and I reckon I did 3 inhand 1mm wire for 30 turns so for 48 volts I reckon I need to do 60 turns and I do have 2 spools of 1.6mm wire to do the rewind but that wire wire was penciled in for the E-core rewind to go an alternate way to using toroids so the shock of actually having to buy wire or just get it rewound by a mob that does do this job so I can save my fingers.

Cheers Bryan

SparWeb · « **Reply #28 on:** March 11, 2023, 11:29:51 PM »

What's it like to carve redgum?
It'll look gorgeous if you do.

PaulJ · « **Reply #29 on:** March 12, 2023, 05:56:48 AM »

My MS390 has been a great chainsaw, bought it new in 2001 I think. haven't touched it apart from maintaining / replacing chain, bar and the odd air filter. Have a little battery saw for the small stuff now but the 390 still cuts most of our firewood.

Sorry, don't want to hijack the thread, looking forward to seeing how the redgum blades go. Ripping down the grain of hardwood is pretty demanding for a chainsaw, from memory I think there are specialist chains designed for the job that last a lot longer (and probably cost a lot more).

Paul.

joestue · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2023, 04:40:17 PM »

Quote from: PaulJ on March 12, 2023, 05:56:48 AM

My MS390 has been a great chainsaw, bought it new in 2001 I think. haven't touched it apart from maintaining / replacing chain, bar and the odd air filter. Have a little battery saw for the small stuff now but the 390 still cuts most of our firewood.

Sorry, don't want to hijack the thread, looking forward to seeing how the redgum blades go. Ripping down the grain of hardwood is pretty demanding for a chainsaw, from memory I think there are specialist chains designed for the job that last a lot longer (and probably cost a lot more).

Paul.

what's to prevent anyone from brazing a chain of the same cutting edge profile as any rip saw? seems to me it wouldn't cost any more than the traditional design.

chip evacuation with any chain saw is a serious problem. might be interesting to take a chain saw and just manually braze a piece of carbide from a skill saw on top of each tooth.

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #31 on:** October 14, 2023, 02:57:06 AM »

Well guy's a plasma cutter is my next job so I'm going to take my 6m plate in so I can make the frame for this 4Kw motor conversion, then I have to think about the slip rings. Years ago they used to use brass on brass so that's the way I'll go and for the wires I'll use 7x5mm copper wire to the connection to the slip rings and down the tower.

As I've said this won't have a tail as we are after the most current to charge the forklift batteries and as I wound this 4Kw for 24 volts 48 volts wasn't around so that is where I'll stay

Next August will be the time when this finally gets in the air but before I'm going to bury a couple of 40' containers and get some 1,000 AH forklift batteries to put in parallel for the storage.

Like i say with 3 lathe tests a peak of 90 amps at cutin is a huge thing to deal with and the name plate is 4Kw I'm sure it will produce it before the eddy currents come in to drop the current. Now I will make my own kill switch so I can shut it down.

I'm going to make my own place on virgin ground and get a 5 ton excavator I can do the ground work of burying to those containers so I can get a constant temp for my ferments.

Guy's with my trails the latest bottle I gave my boss he said it was the best whisky he tasted, now with the aspect of making my own grain on the farm I may be able to get that 18 hole golf course made and totally off the grid on 24 volts.

Cheers Bryan

electrondady1 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 14, 2023, 09:52:39 AM »

sounds like a plan

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Author Topic: 4kw motor Conversion (Read 9512 times)