Author Topic: Need to brainstorm (Read 4930 times)

willib · « **on:** December 24, 2009, 07:40:26 PM »

Been trying to think of something readily available that i can make a 30" dia x an inch more or less, steel spring .

this spring will be cranked tight and then let go to power an alternator.

sort of like an army windup telephone type apparatus. but bigger.

i keep thinking of something like the metal banding used to make crates for shipping

but this would need to be tempered which isnt a problem but i think it is too thin unless it could be spotwelded together to make it thicker.

Is there anything that is part of some appliance or something

something like the spring return on a pull start of a lawnmower , just bigger.

If i knew where to look that would help a lot

zap · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2009, 09:15:28 PM »

You seem to be describing a clock spring.

Offhand I can't think of anything that would have one as big as you want but someone like Volvo farmer might, he's an appliance guru!

Here's a site on making one if that helps.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bazillion/clock.html

frepdx · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2009, 09:34:58 PM »

Garage door spring(s)?

http://blog.makezine.com/gar913.jpg

wdyasq · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2009, 10:34:25 PM »

A bit of math might give one an idea of how much power is in a large spring.

Let's take a SWAG at a garage door spring ....

550 pound door opening 9' in 3 seconds = 3hp or ~2250W divide this by the time you need the power and you will have an idea of how little power there is in that spring.

Note the garage door I picked is very heavy, the speed very fast and there are no mechanical losses figured.

Ron

JW · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2009, 07:08:02 AM »

The thing that comes to mind, to make a recoil spring like that, would be a bandsaw blade, I know that most of the industrial larger gauge blade(its an inch wide) comes on a spool, then the length is sized and welded to make the blade for a particular size. I would figure the welder thats used to make the loop, could produce a very long section, could be used to recycle old blades that are just thrown out. But watch out for the blade, if it unrecoils in an uncontrolled way.

Jeremy

willib · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2009, 08:05:45 AM »

wow Thanks all !

Now i know what to look for

Zap , yes i think the clock type spring is what i'm leaning toward. Interesting site thanks.

Frepdx ,I'm sure i cam find some garage door springs somewhere. They seem beefy enough for my task.I could maybe use the garage door torsion springs as is or

I could unwind them after i heat them up and rewind them to the clock spring style. with the right connectors i could parallel them also . thanks its just what i was looking for.

Ron Thanks for your input , i'm not expecting a lot from this project. I just want to be able to put pedal pressure a spring then have it power an alternator for a little while, while i'm resting lol.

This is what i'm thinking of doing , i could pedal a spring and charge a battery in one direction, then take my feet off of the pedals and let the spring take over for a bit of time.

willib · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2009, 08:11:03 AM »

Thats an idea too ! thanks

.

william

.

scottsAI · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2009, 08:44:59 AM »

Willib,

Consider lifting a weight tied to rope with a stepup gear.

The weight spins the gears driving your load.

Big springs are dangerous, so are heavy weights!

“unwind them after i heat them up and rewind”

Will not work, will loose spring temper once heated, not easy to recover it.

Have fun,

Scott.

willib · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2009, 12:28:27 PM »

Hi Scott , I thought it was implied that i was going to re temper when i got to that step. Thanks i know it wont be easy

GeeMac · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2009, 12:35:52 PM »

Maybe you could spin a flywheel with the spring and use the flywheel to power whatever you need.

taylorp035 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2009, 02:19:52 PM »

I like the weight idea better, as a large spring may be hard to control and difficult to wind up.

I think the idea of a spinning wheel storing power seems to be, in my head, the most easily done and most powerful. I believe you can spin a 1 foot diameter steel wheel at 30,000 rpm before it blows up, but I would run the calculations before you tried that.

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #11 on:** December 25, 2009, 03:17:01 PM »

G'day WilliB,

Taking a look at your pedal genny on the backshed site which I assume is what this thread is about. On the other side of the small push bike bearing spindle where your genny is on one side, just beef up the bearings with timken tapered bearings, make a new heavier shaft and install a decent heavy flywheel on. Depending on the load a 24" diameter steel sheave thats got a bit of weight will keep the genny going on your break periods. Just make sure your beef the frame up as the last thing you need is a heavy steel flywheel running thru ya wall, the neighbors wall then into the front of a new merc parked out front.

Cheers Bryan

fabricator · « **Reply #12 on:** December 25, 2009, 03:44:56 PM »

Annealing a spring then re heat treating it to the previous hardness with out sophisticated heating and temperature control equipment is not just difficult, it's pretty much impossible, I make various small springs on my lathe when I need a special one quite often, I would NOT even consider tackling such a thing with a large torsion spring.

freejuice · « **Reply #13 on:** December 25, 2009, 06:14:50 PM »

Can you use something like music wire...also known as piano wire, most machine shop suppilers like Travers tool or MSC carries the stuff. however its not flat stock, its round stock, you can buy ythe stuff in about 50-100 ft lengths...in just about any diameter you want.

The stuff is esentialy spring steel. I have used the stuff often winding compression springs on a metal lathe

willib · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2009, 08:18:49 PM »

Hmm no huh

well i haven't got any of the equipment to do this yet.

In the back of my head i was thinking of using a kiln and feeding the wire through and quenching it on the way out.

It looks like this project is gonna have to wait , but it cant hurt to try it , someday.

Merry Christmas

.

william

.

willib · « **Reply #15 on:** December 25, 2009, 09:42:52 PM »

Hi Bryan G'Day

I agree that adding another flywheel IS probably the easiest thing to do for now.

The Flywheel on there now is pretty heavy , but its not enough .

I think i need something like 200 lbs worth ,440 kilos , to be more effective.

Hey Bryan ,do you remember that PIC programmer i built a while back?

i haven't been able to log onto Electrotech cuz i never get the email to change my password..

i have the same email address as i've always had.

Oh well

.

william

.

captain nodge · « **Reply #16 on:** December 26, 2009, 05:30:22 AM »

Iknow they have gone over to plastic stuff now, but if you can

get hold of a reel of the old steel pallet banding wrap that seems

pretty springy and strong,

good luck nodge

JW · « **Reply #17 on:** December 26, 2009, 10:36:22 AM »

"I would NOT even consider tackling such a thing with a large torsion spring.

I aint skeered a nuthin......Oh S%*T! What was that?!!! -fabricator "

Ummm, that was my high-speed carbon fibre composite flywheel, storage devise,

turning into a fur-ball, in its housing.

JW

divemaster1963 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 26, 2009, 06:43:11 PM »

Hey willib

Try going to a small enging shop and ask about the Briggs and sttraton auto start recoil unit for the push lawn mowers that briggs came out with a couple years ago. the are the size of a electric starter on 12 hp engines. a big big flat spring that is in a small contained housing. can start a 18 hp engine. very dangerous to take apart. had a guy in south ga. that lost 4 fingers on one hand when the spring let loose. be very very careful.

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #19 on:** December 26, 2009, 08:23:34 PM »

Hi Willi, Eh mate check ya emails, I fixed that electro-tech problem for ya

willib · « **Reply #20 on:** December 26, 2009, 09:47:35 PM »

nope , nothing in my inbox from electro-tech

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #21 on:** December 27, 2009, 12:37:18 AM »

just try logging in mate EM did say your account was active

willib · « **Reply #22 on:** December 27, 2009, 01:08:40 AM »

Cant log in without my password , which i have forgotten.

and cant get a new one because when i ask for them to email it to me i never get it.

and i have extended my spam filter to show what is in there to several days.

and nothing shows up when i request a new PW.

appears to be the ultimate catch 22

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #23 on:** December 27, 2009, 01:19:33 AM »

Hi Bryan,

his account is fully activated, he just needs to login to access. I have also sent him a password reminder.

Regards,

EM

Willi that is the reply I got from EM, I also sent you a PM in the backshed forum so could you reply with your email address so I can verify it in the database. I wont put your email in here as the spam bots will have a great time.

Cheers Bryan

News:

Author Topic: Need to brainstorm (Read 4930 times)