What about Clothes Dryers?

[scottsAI]

ENERGY STAR does not label clothes dryers because most dryers use similar amounts of energy.

Wife won't live without.

Looking at the dryer guts doesn't look difficult.

Replace the 1/3 hp motor with a super efficient brush less motor, voltage of your choice.

Electrical heater with Air-water heat exchanger.

Anybody done something like this?

Have fun,

Scott.

[kurt]

i heard of one guy piping hot air from his wood stove to his dryer (just be careful not to overheat the cloths) but if you want a solar cloths dryer get a cloths line.

[scottsAI]

Cloths line wouldn't be any fun!

Not too good in the rain or winter here in Michigan.

Heat from a wood stove is hot.

Scott.

[wdyasq]

Check out "Equator Clothes Processor" - the capacity is smaller than normal. I like mine. I have a vent-less model I have been using a year. Uses very little water and detergent.

I bought mine with 'shipping damage' from U-Bid for less than $500 delivered.

Ron

[GaryGary]

Hi,

If you live in a dry climae and the dryer is electric (not gas), you can vent it to the  inside through a filter that takes out the lint.

During the heating season, this saves a lot of energy -- about 600 KWH per year in my case -- details here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/ProjectsConservation.htm#Dryer

Venting inside not only recovers the dryer heat for house heating, but prevents the dryer from pulling cold air in from the outside to make up for the air its venting outside.

Gary

[rossw]

Or.... turn it around the other way, if you can, and USE the drier for more than one task.

We had a battle with the council, but finally got past them. Our clothes dryer burns gas (propane) rather than using electric elements. Electricity is really only used to run the tumbler motor.

The exhaust gas is vented into one of our glasshouses. The plants love the extra heat, help convert the combustion products (esp CO2), and like the extra moisture. The glasshouse is 5 metres wide, 15 metres long and 4 metres high, so dry clothes, happy plants and less greenhouse gas to deal with.

You can also get "heat exchangers" designed specifically for buildings that have to expell "dirty" air and bring in clean. Up to about 80% of the heat can be transferred so the expelled air need not cost you a fortune in wasted heat loss. Perhaps the same exchanger could be used with the exhaust from the dryer to reduce the effect of drawing in cold air to replace that expelled?

[nothing to lose]

I do the wood burner dryer thing and posted some about it long ago on here maybe year or two ago? I think some others might do it too.

Back to solar though, different thing!

As long as you have the heat source it will work fine. That's all it's doing is blowing around hot air as it spins so it doesn't matter how the air became hot to begin with, as long as clean air, no smoke etc.. of course.

Dry hot air in, wet hot air out. You might even be able to make a heat exchanger to reclaim the heat in the exhausted air so fresh air is preheated before going into the solar heater also.

The thing I wonder about though, dryers move alot of air, can you heat that much air that fast?

Maybe a couple double walled solar heat stacks, air up through a center pipe, back down between center and outer pipe. Preheats going up center and heats comming down, painted black, maybe behind glass in an insulated box? IF your reclaiming the heat exhausted then the longer it runs and circulates air the hotter it may get once running also.

I think something like that would work here in the mid south, MO. USA, not sure about up north though.

Basically as long as the motor is spinning the drum and blowing air the clothes will dry, just takes longer if the air is not hot and faster if air is hot. Heck clothes dry on the line in the shade in a breeze right

Or hanging on the bathroom shower rod they dry also.

 So basically no way it won't work, just a question of how well will it work?

[TomW]

Our dryer seldom runs. We dry stuff on the totally renewable, free drier that everyone has access to on some level.

Its called a clothesline. Takes some setup time but it is 100% free after.

Not for the lazy or the princess type.

We at least get most of the water out that way then fluff them in the drier a short time.

Not for citified sissies but us hicks been doing it for milennia.

Not as much gadget coolness factor as a powered noisemaker doing it but it will work when all the services disappear.

[/rant]

Uh, convert it to solar and wind put up a clothesline.

How could you guys miss that elephant in the room?

Cheers.

TomW

[Norm]

   Right on Tom, Memories of handing Mom

the clothespins....the mad dash to help bring in

the clothes when it started to rain...This poor

generation that will never know memories like this,

I actually feel sorry for them.

             ( :>) Norm.

[dinges]

A whilst ago on IRC I was amazed to learn that some cities/communities in the USA have outlawed clothes lines.

At first I thought it was a joke and someone was pulling my leg. Till others chimed in and confirmed that in many (suburban) places clotheslines are illegal.

Wow.

Guess some people will be in a for a major shock and lifestyle change in the coming decade(s). -THEN- you can begin feeling sorry for them...

[Bruce S]

So TomW;

  What does a dis-located hick do? too many pigeons and kids too let my shirts dry on the line.

Seems they have this invisable sign on them that says dump here!! or throw dirt here!

We can eat the pigeons , but kids are not in season......yet:-)

And how many remember finding out how much those spring loaded pins hurt? when you got curious?

I too love the feel of sheets dried on the line they just seems to bring the sunhine in with them...

Hummm I wonder how well a solar dehydrater would do, get a low voltage motor and timer, let it turn when every so many seconds let the batt take in a small charge then turn the drum , stop , heat, turn ,,,,, hum might just work:-)

Still won't replace that gentle wind dried clothes tho:--)

Bruce S

[jimjjnn]

Dinges, They call it POLITICAL CORRECTNESS here. Clotheslines are objectionable objects here. :-((

[s4w2099]

Well I am very cheap so I still use clothsline. :-D

[Nando]

Stove hot air to dry clothes is easy and safe to do.

In winter, though living in the tropics, we had problems drying clothes, so my uncle and my father build a drier using the heat from the stove, indirectly.

The hot heat was transfered to the drier via a heat exchanger, this to avoid wood odors going into the cloth and the same motor turning the drum was turning a blower that moved the heated air to exhaust it to the outside.

It worked for many years.

Nando

[BrianK]

depending on where u live. Why not set up a long span of black pipe place it outside

, then connect it to the dryer intake inside. put the cloths in the dryer turn on to air dry only.

 rough idea but a place to start

.

[wooferhound]

Here is a disacussion about heating the dryer intake with the hot exhaust

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/1/15/22455/5870

As for venting into the house, I've heard that womens Hose/stockings make a good filter to get the lent out.

[Norm]

  A 12ft screened in Gazebo with a short squatty

VAWT on top to move the air also connected to a

wormgear drive to turn the rotissary to cook the

pidgeons.

               ( :>) Norm.

[Norm]

 Bruce,

 A 12ft screened in Gazebo with a short squatty

VAWT on top to move the air, also connected to a

wormgear drive to turn the rotissary to cook the

pidgeons.

               ( :>) Norm.

[nothing to lose]

Hey, you problably have plenty of cell towers around, just hang clothes from those pretty things and forget the ugly clothes lines in the back yards

I geuss some people are just offended by whity tighties?

[Tritium]

Why not take that VAWT and hook it to a cloths rack in the gazzebo and let the cloths go round and round?

Thurmond

[nothing to lose]

That's what I use on mine also, the foot lower leg of panty hose. Catches the lint well and can make a long filter if you want, longer the less often needs cleaned. Keeps lint out of house. Durring winter static shock in the house used to be a bit of a problem, the extra moisture from the dryer air stopped the shocks. And of course if the wood burner was fired up and clothes being dried then we wanted the heat also.

A lower heat seems to make less lint when drying also, seems too but I never really checked that. But I do know using a normall electic dryer in winter when it was to warm for the wood burner we got far more lint in the dryers filter than when we used the converted gas/wood burner dryer whose built in filter was never half as full.

Less heat means motor runs longer but less lint probably means clothes last longer also?

[nothing to lose]

Of course we use the clothes line here when we can, but rainy days and winter it doesn't work so well, so I have a couple backup plans

When all else fails and we need certain clothes right then we have an electric dryer, seldom used though. I never got a big propane tank, run the cook stove off a little one and that's it for propane.

Nice thing about buidling/modding your dryers is you can get good ones as scrap for $3-$5 often

 I have a nice one I may convert to DC motor if any of the motors I have work for it, then it's just a matter of a timer and a heat source, set it to 30 minutes or 1 hour and forget it.

I am trying to think of a way to use one of those moisture meters like for plant dirt or testing wood for moisture. Might be something better I haven't found yet also.

 Maybe put it to test the moisture in the exhaust somehow, trigger a relay to run/stop the motor? If I figure something out for that then put in wet clothes and start it up, let it run till clothes are dry and auto shutoff

I wonder for solar heat, seems everyone wants that heat out of the attic in summer right. What about a ductwork under the roof to suck up the hot attic air, perhaps heat for drying clothes and also help cool the house a bit? You might still need more heat, but that could be a good start for preheat on a hot summer day. Suck the hot air off the attic ceiling and draw in fresh cooler outside air to the attic floor. Maybe run the duct out the wall then through a solar heater outside on the roof or running down the wall on the sun side of the house.

I would try that but I don't have an attic myself.

Of course that's if you have a nice clean attic and good air for the clothes, I have seen very nice attics and some nasty smelly ones also. I would not want the air from the nasty ones in my clothes! Nothing wrong with the nice ones and they got just as hot!

[vawtman]

Scott

 Why not put the clothsline in the house during the winter most homes need the moisture anyway?Use a vacant room if you have one.

[vawtman]

A vawt clothsline how could that be boring.Just hook up a couple undies let it spin a little and so on could sit in chair while doing it.

 You could generate power from it.LOL

[GaryGary]

Hi,

An interesting idea.

Dryers use about 170cfm of air.

If the outside air is (say) 50F, and it needs to go through the dryer at 120F, then the heat demand is:

(170 ft^3/min)(0.065 lb/ft^3)(120F - 50F)(0.24 BTU/lb-F) = 186 BTU/min or 11K BTU/hr

A solar collector in full sun at 50% efficiency would collect about

(300 BTU/hr-ft^2)(0.5 efic) = 150 BTU/hr per sqft of collector.

So, it would take about (11000/150) = 73 sqft of collector to supply the dryer.

Not out of reason -- it could be a simple air collector -- this could be built for around $200.  It could be used for house heating when not being used for drying.

If the collector was made smaller, it would not heat the air as much, but the cloths would still dry -- it would just take longer.

This is a nice scheme in that it eliminates the electricity (or gas) needed to heat the air for drying (about 930 KWH per year) as well as the energy the fresh air that the dryer pulls into the house to replace the air its venting out(about another 300 KWH per year for the winter dryer loads).    This adds up to over 1200 KWH per year, or about $120 in saved electricity.  The collector payback (including drying and space heating) would be less than one year!

I've also heard of people using solar closets, in which the wet cloths are hung in a closet that has hot air from a simple solar air collector blown through it.  In the winter the hot air exiting the closet could warm the house, in the summer it could be vented outside.

Gary

[PeterAVT]

I've been doing this for decades up north here in NY USA on the southern shore of Lake  Ontario. Using the dryer exhaust is one of those things that everybody does, but one must be careful to remove the extra humidity. Else all the wood will warp, etc. It does work, tho especially if there is an automatic way to add it to your homes energy systems.

[PeterAVT]

You might be surprised, Norm. I've plenty of memories about frozen underwear or stuff the dog chewed up and rolled on the mud. Sometimes rather large deer come through the area and just eat things. Worse came to worst, I've got just enough room inside to hang it up during the cold months, using a chopped-up gallon jug to hold the clothes-pins on the line.

[Bruce S]

Norm;

  I like where this is going :->

VAWT turning the clothes line making "those" unmentionables turn while cooking those pigeons, a few black birds (known as currie chicken) and some doves ( squab for those in fancy resturants) . Yummy

maybe a couple bike gears small chain turning the rotesserie, along with a few steppers just in case the wind stops.

beginning to look like a family reunion:--)

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

Scott;

 Apologies for getting WAY off topic!!

Couple things.

Thinking that your dryer is purely electric, you could try matching the 1/3hp (which since 750 watts equals 1 HP ) with a 250 - 300 watt say 12Vdc ( will be more common) should be too hard to find.

Look in the owners manual of your dryer, they normally have the schematic listed for 220Vac dryers. Look real close, there's probably a full-wave bridge rectifier on there.

 This will tell us the Ni-chrome wires are being fed rectified AC which will be nice stable DC, pretty much the same as a toaster.

You could then either measure the DC voltage and then fabricate a DC power source to handle the requirements.

You could also publish a pic of the schematic and we could work from there.

include the dry specs too will be easiest.

By using the current built in wiring such as thermal cut-offs and timers you will be keeping all the built in safety features too.

 Being that this is probably a 220Vac unit one of the lower legs will also be tapped for use for the 120Vac circuits for the timers and required safety items, so if you do try this becareful of those circuits as well.

Hope this helps:-]

Bruce S

   

[Bruce S]

opps

"( will be more common) should be too hard to find"

should've been( will be more common) "shouldn't"  be too hard to find!!

Bruce S

 

[scottsAI]

Hello GaryGary,

Yes, Yes you have the idea. Numbers look right.

Add a cross flow heat exchanger to further reduce the heat needed by 25% - 50% or more.

Reducing the size of the solar collector needed in half.

Solar collector can be like ones from your web on the side of the building.

Or, nice simple design:

Clear Polycarbonate panel like used for green house.

Spaced 5/8 inch above a black steel roof panel, gives R2.2 insulation on top.

Assembled on steel 2x4.

Insulation on the sides and bottom (if needed.) complete the air channel.

Air channel is between the 2x4, insulation and under steel panel.

32 sqft can be built for much less than $200! (not factorial, excitement!-)

The motors used in the dryer are built to last 20 years and cheap. Not efficiency.

Motors look to be 1/3 HP, for 170CFM blower and tumbling I think motor could be smaller with higher efficiency. Brush less motor anybody? Will need controller, now have an opportunity for humidity control etc.

Thanks for pointing out the replacement air cost, has changed the direction of the design requirements.

Have fun,

Scott.

[scottsAI]

Hello TomW,

Yes, my wife is the princess type.

I plan on keeping her that way.

Just so long as she keeps treating me like a KING.

Have fun,

Scott.

[scottsAI]

Hello dinges,

I thought the same thing.

5 years ago as part of a new energy policy made it so clothes lines could not be forbidden. Sort of like the dish law.

I spent hours trying to find it... no such luck.

Why did I think there was? Rhetorical question, you won't know.

Have fun,

Scott.