Author Topic: anyone tried ECONO-HEAT ? (Read 13759 times)

xboxman · « **on:** October 01, 2005, 06:19:50 PM »

this is what this site is saying that this heater there are selling..

"The Econo-Heat electric heater uses less power than the average computer (400watts) yet one Econo-Heat electric heater can easily heat an average sized bedroom (10ft x 10ft room with adequate insulation). They cost about 3 cents per hour to run based on the national US average power cost of 8 cents per kilowatt hour."

here's the web site address

http://www.eheat.com/?opt=

if this is ture you could run this heater from solar power ..

has anyone tried this heater yet ? or know any thing about it or the campany that makes it ?

thanks

jimjjnn · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2005, 12:50:25 PM »

Average size room? What is their idea of average?

400 watts will only heat a very small insulated room.

My thoughys on it

xboxman · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2005, 02:23:16 PM »

i think they are saying a 10 ft by 10 ft room = a 100 square foot room

crashk6 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2005, 03:24:28 PM »

The original concept for these things was developed in Sweden. The units I have seen work fairly well, although I can not testify to how well this particular unit preforms.

Electric heat, although very efficient in terms of the total amount of energy converted to heat, essentially 100 percent, it's still electric heat and as such demands lots of power. In short, provided this unit is affordable ( I admit it I just looked at the picture on the site and nothing more) for your application and you have grid power then try it out.

As a side note these were originally used in saunas and bathrooms... of course I'm partial to heated tile in those situation so not my first choice there but not bad as additional heat in a main room... which is the application I've seen in action.

--

crashK6

kell · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2005, 03:53:45 PM »

That heater may consume less electricity than conventional heaters because it doesn't use a FAN, but the heating element "efficiency" will equal that of any other heater. You get exactly as much heat as the amount of electrical energy the heating element consumes, no more and no less. (Power factor doesn't enter the picture with resistive heating elements.)

drdongle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2005, 08:06:22 AM »

I think the claims are extravagant, watts is watts, It does have the fact that it is flat and can be mounted on a wall, making it good for tight spaces going for it.

finnsawyer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2005, 09:08:19 AM »

Going by this they are saying you could heat a 1200 square foot house with a 5 Kw electric heater (in the plenum of a hot air system?), if the house is adequately insulated. No windows perhaps? And R - 40 in the walls? R - 80 in the ceilings? I'd like to see one of these heat a 10 by 10 foot bedroom up here at 20 degrees below zero Fahrenheit.

MountainMan · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2005, 10:34:50 AM »

A careful read of their site will show that the unit has no thermostat. It runs 24X7 during the heating season. Also, their claim doesn't say anything about the outside ambient temp. Obviously you would need a different amount of watts in Norway than you would in South Florida.

jp

richhagen · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2005, 12:45:05 PM »

The unit will produce 400 watts of heat. Just the same as any other 400 watt electric heater. It seems to me that without some method of mixing the heat with the air in the room, such as a fan, radiant heat, ect., more of the heat is going to end up next to your ceiling. Rich

bob golding · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2005, 02:50:17 AM »

looks like another type of oil filled radiator to me. if you could lay it flat on the floor it might give better results. but watts is watts however you cut it.

bob golding

laskey · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2005, 11:17:43 AM »

It's not that far fetched or that good. My last house was 900 square feet, and we had just over 5kW of electric heating elements to heat the entire place.

Cya,

Chris

JYL · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2005, 07:15:06 PM »

I don't see how you can heat "comfortably" a room of 10 by 10 with roughly 1400 Btu/H (400 W). You still have the same heat -- this unit will not invent any heat like can do a Heat Pump (Actually, the heat pump does not invent any either but transfer it from somewhere else). The lack of a thermostat seem to indicate that the unit will be wasteful of electricity at time.

This unit is similar in operation to what we call a "Convectair" in Quebec, Canada. Same installation procedure (Not near the windows), same convection technology... According to some laboratory test, you can save a few dollars every year with those convectair (something like 2 or 3$ each unit). This is because they are not installed on the "exterior wall" and therefore, you loose a little bit less heat by conduction via the exterior wall. Believe me; you will be hard pressed to see the difference on your heating bill compare to a regular electric baseboard controlled by an electronic thermostat.

I learned a few things about comfort and baseboard/convectair heating:

You need a triac operated thermostat that will normally keep the Baseboard/convectair only warm to the touch so you don't fell a big blast of heat anytime you come close to it. This is likely similar to the advertised "Econo-heat" advantage.
An oversize unit provide a good recovery rate -- so you might be more tempted to lower the thermostat at night or when the house is empty. This is where you can save some money. With an electronic thermostat, an oversized unit does not cost more to operate. At 10%, 20% or 100% duty cycle, a baseboard is always electrically 100% efficient. I have 2000W/H unit in one bathroom. In 10 minutes, I can swing the room temperature from 68F to 75F when we take our shower. That is comfort.
An electronic thermostat, by itself and in 99% of the cases will save you some money and add greatly to your comfort. If you can find a good one at less than 50$US to control 1500W or more, you are likely to recover your money in a year or two (In Quebec, Canada and Burlington, Vermont,USA for sure).

In my house, I have 7 Convectair (all purchase because they are more compact so take less "wall area" that the regular baseboard), 4 baseboards and 2 rooms with hydronic heating. I can't see the difference in comfort between the Convectair and the Baseboard (same heat -- same experience). All operating with electronic thermostat (9 totals).

Also, we use something like 16,000Kw/H per year to heat the house. That will required a big "wind generator" to do that.

Final note: If you go on the web site of Convectair (www.convectair.ca), you might see "Energy Star rated". Don't be fooled, this rating applies to the electronic thermostat that equips each unit -- Not the eating system itself. Now, you can find better or similar thermostat on the market.

ghurd · « **Reply #12 on:** October 04, 2005, 01:30:45 AM »

Watts X 3.413 = BTU per hour.

So 400W x 3.413= 1365 BTU/H.

Watts is watts.

Period.

Look at it this way.

The 400W is less than 23% of what my daughter uses to dry her hair.

So by the math, a simple $6 hair drier can heat 450 square feet.

Just a lowly hair drier is better?

Sure it is! It heats more area, for less purchase price, with the same energy costs.

(What's a KW/H? Is the energy cost 8 or 3 cents an hour? Who cares? Its only a few cents. Just a nickel. 5 cents X 24 hours is about a dollar a day. $30 a month! Wow! That's cheap! I'll save a fortune!)

A certain windmill makes 400+ watts. It charges at 'low wind speed'. Costs ~$600?

And 400W X 5 mills = 2000W.

The hair drier uses 1800W.

So $3006 will heat a 450^2' area.

A small 20 X 22' home in upper Alaska can be heated for free with a $3006 investment. 5 mills and a hair drier.

And there is power to spare. For lights, TVs, video games....

Turn the heat down, use CFLs, and the power company will send me a check!

So. Does anyone want to buy 5, 400w mills and a hair drier from me for $3006 so you have no heat bill AND the power company will send you a check every month forever?

The BS is getting deep somewhere.

Its all in the wording and how the numbers are twisted.

G-

Ungrounded Lightning Rod · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2005, 01:54:29 PM »

Electric heat, although very efficient in terms of the total amount of energy converted to heat, essentially 100 percent, it's still electric heat and as such demands lots of power.

But dumping high-quality energy (mechanical or electrical) is terribly wasteful, even if the conversion is perfect. The reason is that, in going from heat energy to high-quality energy you lost 2/3 to 3/4th of the heat - and all you get back is that last quarter or so.

If you use that high-quality energy to run a heat pump you can work that multiplier the other way, and get perhaps three times the heat for a given amount of power by using the high-quality energy to pump some available heat from outside to inside - BEFORE you dump that good stuff as heat, too. (Exact amount of your multiplier depends on the efficiency of your heat pump and the temperature difference you're pumping heat across.)

That's why, if you're burning fuel, you use it to heat your house or water directly (or when it comes out of the heat engine that's grabbing that quarter or so you can get out of it as high-quality energy), rather than generating electricity with it and using the electricity to make your heat. Why throw 3/4 away when you're PAYING for it - via a utility company or directly?

It's also why, if you're doing solar heating, you use the sun to heat your working fluid rather than to generate electricity to burn into heat. That square yard of solar surface can get you a kilowatt of heat or a couple hundred watts of juice - and it's cheaper to collect it as heat, too. The only time you should be making heat with photovoltaic is when you have to dump it anyway to keep from overcharging, or for small or short-term uses where control is paramount (like soldering irons, hair driers, or microwave ovens.)

(Wind is another matter: Sometimes there's SO much available that it makes sense to use it for heat, and you tend to get more when you need more heat. Usually it's like photovoltaic, though: Too little available, or too expensive to grab it, to use for electric heat. Heat things opportunistically with your dump loads and let it go at that.)

steak2k1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2005, 06:35:37 PM »

Geez ghurd...$ 3006. for a hair dryer and the 4 X 400w mills come as a free attachment.? not a bad deal. Is the cheque a blank one or is it actually cashable..?? LOL

Deep is right. too funny.!!

I just cannot imagine using 16,000+ kwh a year on heat alone.!! that's Eastern Canada for ya....wow. Hydro Quebec must love those guys.

I've got a 1700 ft sq house 2 storey, use CFL everywhere and my usage is about 550 kwh per mo so ... 6000kwh per yr on avg. Nat gas heats the house mind you...and it ain't getting cheaper these days.

Hmmmm....Now that I think about it, that hair dryer/4 mills sounds pretty good.!! will ya take Cdn pesos..?

bottom line is: there is no free lunch no matter which way ya cut it.

rgds,

stk

JYL · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2005, 08:25:19 PM »

Hydro-Quebec is a state owned company (a crown corporation). Any profit goes back to Quebec rate payers. Furthermore, at 6 cents Kw/H + taxes -- this is still affordable. Something likes $18 for 1,000,000 BTU (100% efficient at that).

According to some statistic, more than 70% of Quebec homes are electric heated. However, there is two reasons for that:

When building a new house, the electric baseboard heating is cheap like nothing else. The equipment cost less than 35$ per room. With electronic thermostat, this is still only 55$ per room. A full 10 rooms house can be fully heated with a mere investment of 600$ to a 1000$. This includes an oversized electric entrance.
Quebec peoples want to reduce the pollution has much as possible. In the 1960, Quebec has heavily invested in Hydro. The government at the time did justify the billions needed by the production of "Clean, Clean, Clean" energy. Now, in 2005, we want the government to deliver. Anyway, the original block of 165TWe/Y cost a mere 1,65c per KWe to produce.

Hydro-Quebec generate 93% of it electricity from Hydro. Only 6.5% are from "fuel based" generator and this include landfill gas burning.

Funny has it might seem, even the Natural Gas is considered dirty in Quebec. The population (over 70% of it) has refused the construction of an 800MWe Gas generator close to Montreal. They asked the Government to build some wind generator (over 2000 MWe) and some more hydro (some 800 MWe). The Hydro-Quebec peak capacity is astonishing for a small population of 7 Millions: About 37,000 MWe -- This is needed in Winter ... This compare with Ontario with a population of 10 Millions and only 24,000 MWe

Hoo Ya, 80% of the lights in the house are CFL and we use pretty efficient appliance too: but with hot water, heating, Pool pump, Air conditionning and everything, this is 26,000 Kw/H per year - about 1,950$CDN (all taxes and fee included) for a single story + Basement, 2,200 Square feet's house.

ghurd · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2005, 01:31:29 AM »

I figure you mean QC, not the city. And QC is BIG.

Having been all over Quebec... I think to people who have not experienced ALL of Quebec... These numbers will be or seem twisted.

Things I have noticed...

It's nothing to drive 10 or 20 miles, along power lines, and not see a real 'home'.

Fence posts mounted above ground because of solid rock below the surface.

Bridges built of timber with the bark still on. Nerve racking.

Citys with road maps, but none of the roads connect to anything outside of that city. (hows that happen? You just have to be there.)

In the out laying areas, it seems about every home, house, or shack has a 'wood burner' chimney.

Fire wood must free for the taking in a majority of area. My last 4 hour bush plane flight saw enough limbed, stacked, aged, and then abandoned telephone pole size trees to heat who knows what.

So/And natural gas just is not even an option for a lot of people or homes.

Totally regardless of the initial cost.

Over 80% of of the population lives in urban communities near the Saint Lawrence River. Therefore HQ is quite cost effective without need for heavy long transmission lines.

My point being, if gas is not an economical or even a possible choice, it won't be chosen. That makes the numbers skewed, but I can't figure which way!

Kudos on the CFLs and hydo.

Extra kudos for the landfill burning.

G-

PS--personally, I like HQ projects.

I regularly fish the Reservoir Gouin and others.

nothing to lose · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2005, 01:56:32 PM »

1800 watt hair dryer

?

Watch she don't burn the skin off her head after melting her hair!

Good grief I don't think my HF heat gun is much more (if any) than 1800watts and I burnt the paint on a car with that! Could strip paint if I wanted to with it also.

As for the wood burner last year, yep I dried wet kindling with the heat gun and lit the fire too. Only once or twice, but it worked.

Hmmm, I am a bit lazy this year as far as cutting wood and may be down south allot till Jan. Maybe I'll set the wifey up with 2 HF heatguns and a hairdryer or two and forget about the fire wood this year

ghurd · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2005, 02:02:46 PM »

Well, I just had to go look.

Her hair drier says 1800W.

My HF heat gun says 1500W.

nothing to lose · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2005, 02:48:43 PM »

Ouwie, she's gonna melt her head...

Probably what I have then a 1500watt HF gun, but I don't like drying my hair with it!

Actually I did that once when in a hurry, it was hot!!

bdklar · « **Reply #20 on:** December 29, 2006, 11:29:59 AM »

I have one of these. Have had it for about 2 years. Recently it has cracked in the center from top to bottom. I have contacted the company and they stated that since it is past the 18 month warranty period, they could not help, however did recommend I replace it and then mentioned of a sale on the item right now. I am going to contact the consumer reports group and email the photo so they may review this item.

2pyrs · « **Reply #21 on:** November 07, 2007, 02:20:57 PM »

Don't feel bad I bought 9 of them and to date in (Three years) I have one left that has not cracked and one that was on fire.

I don't recommend buying these units as I feel they are very unsafe. If you have any in your home I would seriously consider removing it at once.

"DON'T BUY"

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Author Topic: anyone tried ECONO-HEAT ? (Read 13759 times)