Author Topic: Cured Copper  (Read 7270 times)

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pexring

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Cured Copper
« on: May 27, 2005, 04:18:47 PM »
A company put a big ad in our local newspaper selling a heater that supposively heats for 50% less than most room heaters.  In one model of this heater, 3 infrared bulbs heat tubes of cured copper.  Air flows over the tubes and heats the room evenly, and will continue to heat even without the heater running.  Supposively it will heat-up a room in 5 minutes (didn't say how big).


My question is what is cured copper?  Is that like hardened copper?  If so, will hardened copper hold heat longer than soft copper?  


Mark

« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 04:18:47 PM by (unknown) »

Jeff7

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2005, 02:13:02 PM »
It's called "a scam designed to harvest money from unsuspecting chumps", present company excluded. :)


In order to heat up a certain amount of air, it's going to take a certain amount of energy. Whether that energy comes from burning a wood, decaying plutonium, nuclear fusion, or 3 infrared bulbs, it's still going to take the same amount of energy.


What you have here is a radiatior that's heated by infrared bulbs. This is along the lines of that amazing anodized aluminum thing awhile ago that would thaw out meat quickly, so the ad claimed. It was little more than a large black anodized aluminum heatsink. So it might actually help to thaw meat faster, as heatsinks serve as a means of equalizing temperatures, but not much. However, if you use lots of little sparkly special effects, and use the words "anodized" and "special" then it's a wonderful product, worth $19.95. Or those "cell phone antennas" - little stickers of gold foil that probably cost about a half a cent to make, but sold for $19.95.


Cured copper? Most people have never heard of this (it seems it does exist, used in pipe organs), which must mean that it's an amazing new form of copper. Unlikely.


And it doesn't matter how long the copper (or whatever might be used) will hold heat - first it needs to get that heat into it. Which takes us back to the argument about it needing a certain amount of energy to accomplish.
Go to the store in winter and look at all the different heaters. In the US, they're probably all going to max out at 1500 Watts. All the different styles, but in the end, all can output a maxiumum of 1500W. All have the same potential heating capability. Granted, some are radiative, and some are convective. End result though - 1500W of heat will be dissipated. That's it. Oil filled? The heater will stay hot longer, but it'll heat up slower, because the cold oil will absorb heat first.


Now for my closing statement - this "cured copper" thing is a scam.


Hope that was thorough enough. :)

« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 02:13:02 PM by Jeff7 »

pexring

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2005, 11:07:27 PM »
Scam was my thought.


For kicks, today I put an infrared bulb in front of a 12"x12" sheet of copper and 5 minutes later the copper was still cool to the touch.  So not sure how a room was suppose to be heated in 5 minutes, as the ad explains.


Mark

« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 11:07:27 PM by pexring »

nothing to lose

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2005, 04:19:08 PM »
"It's called "a scam designed to harvest money from unsuspecting chumps", present company excluded. :) "


I agree with that, it probably is, just like flase statements on box fan boxes! "This fan uses 85% less electric than a room airconditionare", what a lie and chumps fall for it, should be outlawed as out right lie. Turn the airconditionare on as a fan only to move air, that is all a box fan does, then the fan DOES NOT use that much less electric as the lie states as being a fact.


"In order to heat up a certain amount of air, it's going to take a certain amount of energy. Whether that energy comes from burning a wood, decaying plutonium, nuclear fusion, or 3 infrared bulbs, it's still going to take the same amount of energy."


I am on both sides of that one, agree, but don't agree at same time. It may take a cetain amount of energy to heat a certain amount of air, that may be correct. How that energy is used makes a very large difference though. You can waste a ton extra for the same heat or use the bare minimum needed, most products use more than needed! Products do the same work using less power all the time as product improvements are made. Some people at one time might have argued that 30mpg cars were imposible because engines of those days could only get a max of 18-20mpg, now we have engines that make far better use of the same amount of feul. Put a new engine in a large 60's Caddy  and it gets far better milage than the old engine got, so it's not just lighter cars with better shapes for better milage. It's getting the same HP from less feul with better designs. Still the same heavy bulky car fighting the same wind at same speeds, better milage with modern engine.


"What you have here is a radiatior that's heated by infrared bulbs. This is along the lines of that amazing anodized aluminum thing awhile ago that would thaw out meat quickly, so the ad claimed. It was little more than a large black anodized aluminum heatsink. So it might actually help to thaw meat faster, as heatsinks serve as a means of equalizing temperatures, but not much. However, if you use lots of little sparkly special effects, and use the words "anodized" and "special" then it's a wonderful product, worth $19.95. Or those "cell phone antennas" - little stickers of gold foil that probably cost about a half a cent to make, but sold for $19.95."


You are right, people fall for those stupid gimicks all the time. But heat sinks do work both ways and putting one under frozen food does work :)

 It's still the foods abilty to absorb the heat that will have alot of effect.

Place frozen steak on a table, the table gets cold and the meat thaws very slowly. Drop it in a pan of hot water it thaws much faster, but you have a soggy wet steak.

 Place it on an aluminum heat sink, sit it over the pilot light on the stove, you have a fast dry thaw. And unlike a microwave the food is not half cooked radio active rubbery  gunk when ready to cook it :)

 Liquids like stews, chili, soups, et.. work better than steaks this way. Also if part of the heatsink is exposed to the direct sun it works far faster.


Of course you could probably keep your $20 and just use an aluminum skillet and it work almost as well, but those fins do absorb more heat on the heatsinks. And airflow is needed as well, otherwise the heat sink gets cold, air gets cold, no more heat transfered, so to work corectly it should be either at a source of mild heat (pilot light, in the sun etc..) or where there is a breeze of sometype so the air moves like an open table area. Sitting it up against the wall behind unused toaster and deepfryer it won't work very well, I saw someone do this! Buried frozen food behind junk where no air was moving and wonder why 4 hours latter it was still froze solid, it was like being in an ice chest without ice.


Also the heatsinks will freeze food faster sometimes too. I have used similar type things for freezing chocolate covered bannas :)

 The ones laying on wax paper were mushy while I ate the frozen solid one that was on a heat sink. All were put in freezer at same time.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2005, 04:19:08 PM by nothing to lose »

Arno

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2005, 06:54:23 PM »
  I'm 75 and never heard of cured copper or any cured metal. I think what all of us are really looking for is something to do for heat what cfl bulbs do for light! More heat for less watts. Anyone have some idea's? Instead of watt hungry resistance heaters, how about magnetic eddy current heaters? Is it possible to get a like amount of heat for less wattage?


 arno

« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 06:54:23 PM by Arno »

RP

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2005, 08:03:46 PM »
Arno,


Electric heating is already 100% efficient.  Every watt you put in comes out as heat.  


To get more heat out than you put in it has to come from somewhere else and that's what a heat pump does.  Thye use electricity to pull heat from the outside air or groundwater or something.


Hope this helps


rp

« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 08:03:46 PM by RP »

nothing to lose

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2005, 12:30:30 AM »
"and never heard of cured copper or any cured metal."


I think it's like cured ham.

Gee, I didn't even know the pig was sick.

Hmmm, what did it have and do I actually want to eat it?


Actaully I think it's all hype and lies, like "10% solution added to enhance flavor"!

What they mean is 10% water added so the can rip you off $4lb selling you water instead of real meat! People fall for crap and hype because they are stupid and manufactors take advantage of that everytime possible.

10lb ham, 10% water, you paid $4 for 1 pint of water, think about that people! So ok, maybe they put a little salt in the water too? Or was it cancer causing MSG they put in?


I raised pigs awhile and I ate REAL ham, that water they inject DOES NOT enhance flavor! Or maybe I just raised the worlds best pigs my first try??

« Last Edit: May 30, 2005, 12:30:30 AM by nothing to lose »

Jeff7

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2005, 08:29:32 AM »
"But heat sinks do work both ways and putting one under frozen food does work"


I do agree with that, however, the "heatsink" that was marketed a few years ago hardly had any increase in the surface area. Tests on that said that it was about on par with leaving the meat setting on a plate. Maybe if it had 200 thin fins, it would have done the job better.


"Electric heating is already 100% efficient.  Every watt you put in comes out as heat."


Yeah, that's the thing - creating heat from electricity is extremely easy. Hook a thin wire to a Ni-cad battery. The battery will get warm as its insides fry themselves from the short circuit, but the wire will also glow red-hot.

Electric heat isn't really the best option simply because electricity is expensive for that purpose, and really not yet environmentally sound. It's all about converting matter to energy. That old e=mc^2 thingy - there's a LOT of energy stored in a small amount of matter. Current theories (or even tests in particle accelerators) show that when matter and antimatter particles annihalate, they release a LOT of energy, mainly gamma radiation. Matter is converted right into energy, and a lot of it.

When you burn wood, you are cheaply "transmitting" a lot of energy to your house, by way of a truck containing wood pellets or logs. That's cheap.

Transmitting enough electricity to your house to provide heat generally involves burning coal, oil, or the fission of uranium, which must first be transported to the power plant, and then sent over a large power grid to get to your house. This of course adds the expense.

Hopefully that made some sense; sort of a mini brain dump there.


"For kicks, today I put an infrared bulb in front of a 12"x12" sheet of copper and 5 minutes later the copper was still cool to the touch.  So not sure how a room was suppose to be heated in 5 minutes, as the ad explains."


Psh, yeah, but it wasn't super amazing, miraculous, patented, etc etc cured copper. :)

j/k


"This fan uses 85% less electric than a room airconditionare"

Well, technically that is accurate.:D Just in the same way as it's totally accurate to say "A full scale nuclear bomb produces more radiation than a flashlight."

Both statements are entirely true. An air conditioner actually vents the hot air, while a fan just moves air around, as you made note of. They do two different things though. A nuclear bomb puts out a variety of radiation, while a flashlight simply puts out a small amount of EM radiation, from violet, through to infrared. Two totally different uses though.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 08:29:32 AM by Jeff7 »

drysider

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2005, 11:12:39 AM »
This is a quote from the "official" website:


"Cured copper is a type of copper that goes through an extensive  heating process to give it special properties"


No doubte snake oil plays an importaint part in the "extensive" process.


Pat

« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 11:12:39 AM by drysider »

Stick

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2006, 01:03:13 PM »
We love this ad at work.  I showed the full-page ad to some of my peers, and we had a great laugh!  You all seemed to miss bullet #3 in the photo, where the "copper coil rides the humidity in the room...".   I guess it can ride the humidity all day/season...it's doing nothing to the humidity.


I laughed like h_ll when I read this.  OTOH, they're not lying to you by making that sensless statement!


And as for the 50% reduction...READ THE AD, it states that you can save up to 50% on your heating bill...    This is possible, if the room it's in is small, you use that room 99% of the time while you're in your home, and then you can cut the heat to the rest of your home to 50 degrees (or less?)  So savings are possible, but only if you use your common sense.  Oh, they DON'T mention that your elect. bill WILL rise when using their unit.  Caveat emptor!


Also love the part about the copper sheet "continues to heat the cellar evenly...even after the fire was out".  What Mr. Jones probably ommitted was the fact that he had a super-hot fire that night, maybe even a chimney fire, and it most likely (over) heated the foundation of his house, and these old rocks were actually the thing that kept the cellar warm.  Ever read up on Russian Stoves?  Large mass of rock/mortar in the central part of the house.  Small fire heats the rock mass, and then this gently heats the home.


I find it very interesting that, for the most part, the ad never really blatantly lies to you.


I wrote to them about their typo "rides", and have received nothing back.  This was over a month ago.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 01:03:13 PM by Stick »

ghurd

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 03:52:32 PM »
I just gotta chime in.


The funny paper now has full page ads for this crap again.

My father-in-law (who would NOT spend $1 each for CFLs) asked how great this is.

They tried to order, but the lines where too busy.  WTF! OMG! ABC! XYZ!


Snake Oil comes in a free genuine plastic bottle you get to keep, even if you return the snake oil. For a limited time, it comes with a free cap for the plastic bottle.

So snake oil is a better deal. At least it come with a plastic bottle and cap.


Cha-Ching!

« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 03:52:32 PM by ghurd »
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cudejm

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2006, 08:48:04 AM »
Despite the infomercial type hype and claims made for the EdenPure heater I decided to try it.  I work for a company that allows me to ship personal packages via UPS and I only pay the very low rates they pay, so a small return shipping charge was my only risk.  As well If I had to send it back I would get the joy of writing Paul Harvey and tell him he is endorsing a piece of junk.


What I wanted to find out is if the heater will heat the air without drying it out which is just one of their MANY claims for this heater.    My house is ALL electric so running the central electric heater is VERY expensive.  I have tried a myriad of different types of space heaters and the savings you get from them ALL come by turning down the energy hog central heating system, and only heating the area you are currently occupying.  Most of the modern heaters are very efficient and up until now a Pelonis Honeycomb Disc Furnace V purchased at Home Depot was my favorite heater.  The Pelonis is tiny compared to the EdenPure and uses 5 ceramic disc and a variable speed fan which goes slower and slower as you get closer to the desired temperature.  The one thing I do not like about the Pelonis and all other space heaters I have tried is the air begins to dry out which for me causes some sinus issues.  Yes I know I could purchase a humidifier but I decided to try the over priced Eden Pure fully expecting I would be boxing it up and shipping it back after giving it a try.


As it turns out this is a pretty good heater.  It should be considering the price.  It is safe since the heating elements are inside a huge cabinet.  The heated air that comes out the front vent is not hot enough to ignite newspaper so it is about as safe as you can get for a space heater.  Every winter you see lots of news stories of fires started by space heaters so being able to leave this heater unattended without worrying about coming back to a burned down house is a definite plus.  The other good thing is it uses a commercial Honeywell thermostat on the EdenPure.  It is not digital so you can't dial in a specific temperature but after experimenting I found out where to leave the dial to keep the area at a comfortable temperature.  If I come home and the house is freezing I can crank it to high for a while then dial it back until I hear the thermostat click when the room begins to feel warmer and the heater maintains that temp by cycling on and off as needed.  If I know a cold front is due in over night I can set it at the point on the dial that will keep the bedroom and bath area just warm enough to be comfortable when I have to pry myself out of the warm bed.


The verdict for me is even though they use these ridiculous infomercial tactics and stupid claims about cured copper this is a good heater that is safe to use and leave on even when you are not home which is something you can not say for most other space heaters.  As well the room air does not seem as dry which will be a benefit to my sinuses.  Probably just buying a humidifier and using my 70 dollar Pelonis would have worked as well but even so I have no plans to send back the EdenPure.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2006, 08:48:04 AM by cudejm »

regis101

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2007, 09:10:14 PM »
Posting to ask cudejm some questions.


Did you get the 500 or 1000?

Where do you live?

Is it noisy?


I agree about the infomercial hype.  If the 1000 does put out 5k BTU's, it should be perhaps seen as a viable auxillary heat source.  The ad states a 14 gauge cord.  This would max at 15 amps.  80% of that is 12 and that would equate to a 1500 watt draw.  I dunno how to convert power draw to BTU output.  But if a 1500 watt draw equals 5k BTU's then we have apples for apples.  Any plug in space heater is that much.  So the deciding factor would be safety and efficiency.  


I have central heat and air using a heat pump. I want to think it's environmentally friendly since I'm not adding wasted heat energy from a gas furnace into the air.  But that topic is for another day.  


Being able to use a second heat source, even as small as this one, may help in the long run.  It almost seems that every household has some type of space heater.  Working out in the garage is reason enough.  So why not?


Just some thoughts


Regards, Regis

« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 09:10:14 PM by regis101 »

Rowdy

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Re: Cured Copper
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2007, 04:13:27 PM »
I posted this in another forum and was referred here. I don't know squat about so-called cured copper, but this is a very good heater.


I am new to this forum but wanted to share my experience with the edenpure heater. This winter and especially the last 2 weeks have been very cold here in texas. My house is a modest 1500 sq ft, has good insulation and efficient double pane windows, but our livingroom never seemed to be as warm and comfortable as the rest of the house. We had to keep the house central heat on 70 just to maintain 67 in the livingroom and the central heat ran almost continously and was pulling about 4kwh on average. My wife saw an ad in our AARP newsletter talking about this edenpure heater. The ad sounded almost too good to be true. We already owned 4 different electric space heaters and none of them were anymore than expensive to operate hair dryers so i was extremely skeptical. To make a long story shorter ... we decided to order the edenpure 1000 to see if it was as good as they claimed. It had a money back guarantee so we figured if it was junk we could return it. Well, i am here to tell you that this thing is just as advertised. We set it up between our livingroom and the semi adjoined kitchen (about 900 sq ft total) and it keeps both very toasty at 70-71 degrees. The tech info says it pulls 1.28kwh at full output and my observation of my electric meter confirms this. I am so glad we ordered this heater. It is like no other heater out there that i am aware of. It is so small it is hard to believe this can heat my house so well. We have turned the house central heat thermostat to 68 and it virtually has not run at all. My daily electric usage has dropped from 120kwh to 90kwh. I recommend the edenpure 1000.

If anyone has any questions i will be glad to answer if i can.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 04:13:27 PM by Rowdy »