Author Topic: Need some help (Read 3751 times)

firefighter139 · « **on:** September 10, 2006, 04:24:18 AM »

Howdy all,

Been reading this site in total awl, it is amazing to me what some of you do! But I will admit that most of the tech stuff you all talk about blows me away. You might as well be talking a foregin language.

Anyway I have just married and just bought a house. This house has a un-attached garage 26x30 with a loft and I am looking for a way to heat it during the cold winter months of Iowa. Now here is the kicker, I do (amature) wood working projects so I can't heat it with any open flame type heater. The solar heating looks good to me but kind of past my abilities. So I was thinking of buying a 20 gal water heater with a small pump to heat this area. In normal understandable language can someone help me come up with a basic system that is low cost in both buying of and operating of or direct me in my idea? Fire fighting isn't a high paying job so I need cheap but safe if ya know what I mean...

firefighter139

Titantornado · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2006, 10:47:45 PM »

Not sure if this is simple enough for you, but it might be a start.

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/5348/Solar_Hot_Water.JPG

Countryboy · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2006, 10:50:32 PM »

Why can't you use an open flame type heater in a woodworking shop? As long as you keep burnable materials a safe distance from the stove, you should be fine. If you are worried about sawdust in the air, use a dust vacuum to control airborne particles.

I'd recommend insulating the dickens out of the garage. It's amazing how warm a building will stay, just using the ground heat from the floor.

stephent · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2006, 11:07:01 PM »

Ain't nothing going to be cheap about heating that with grid electricity.

Augmenting a bit of solar heat grabbers with electricity might be cheaper. (cold nights)

Look at electric baseboard heaters--clean them often with the sawdust problems.

Rethink solar--look here.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/solar_barn_project.htm

and all over here.

http://www.builditsolar.com/

The small 20 gallon water heater has more then likely about 1500 watt heater(s) (and even if it has 2 heaters--only one works at a time) in them--those are a bit small for that large a space for heating, especially since heat rises to the "loft" area.

RP · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2006, 11:30:09 PM »

Paint fumes?

scottsAI · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2006, 12:44:20 AM »

Hello firefighter139,

Your going to see a lot of; well it depends.

any walls facing south?
Roof facing south?
What is the roof made of?
Waist oil available?
Corn cheap and available?
Wood cheap and available?
How warm do you need it?
How much you willing to spend?
How much insulation does it have or willing to put in?
How will is the place sealed up?

Many Ideas to work from just need some more information!

Pictures help.

Solar we need to see where the sun comes from.

Remember insulation is your friend, just after wood putty.

Welcome to our fun place.

Have fun,

Scott.

Norm · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2006, 07:21:37 AM »

The solar heating looks good to me but kind of past my abilities.

Past your abilities ? If I could have a nickle

for everytime I've heard someone say something like that in my lifetime...

When my brother-in-law was out of work I ventured

to show him how to fix lawnmowers...

"Oh I could never do that!"

He ended up turning it into a nice profitable

sideline!

There was a guy on the board who started making

solar home-brewed heating panels he had a few

failures on glasscutting but eventually learned

how.

If you've got a south facing wall with plenty

of sun exposure ...you've got a good head start...all kinds of free glass if you know where to look.

( :>) Norm.

pepa · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2006, 07:35:22 AM »

hi firefighter, if you have space outside the shop you can duct hot air into the space with a simple (cheap) heat system of your choice. heat exchanger can be powered by any of the re systems posted here and other places on the web. heat can be reguladed by a thermistat controled blower, safe and out of your way while working, no danger of flash fire or stack problems. pepa

firefighter139 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2006, 01:41:48 PM »

Wow thanks all for responding... some really great eye opening ideas and now my brain is a buzzing. Now I will try to answer all your questions... I guess when I said it's beyound my ability I was meaning the solar panels utilized for electric power. I get confused when you are talking the technical stuff which I hope the more I am on this site the more I will learn. As far as building water or air solar panels I would have no problem building these. Anyway my garage roof does face south and has sun until 1pm when a large tree blocks the sun. The front section of my garage, where the vehicles park is not insulated but the loft and the workshop are very well insulated. The previous owner had a old pot belly stove which heated this area but that didn't stay with the sale. So I have a chimeny that I plan on using for ventilation or be closed off when not needed. The saw dust would be a problem if I didn't ever clean up but I do keep a very neat shop, I worry about a flame system do to the different chemical strippers, cleaners, etc... that I use. I was looking at doing something like I mentioned because just using solar panels for warm air would be good during the early day but I would loose it when I would probably be in the shop working in the evening. So I was thinking water or even maybe using a simular system but heating oil instead of water. But I am a rookie and I can see clearly that the knowledge here would keep me out of trouble or making a system that wouldn't work. Question was ask about money... well if I had money I would just pay someone to throw a typical furnace in this area. Most of my projects are done with things people throw away. So if I can make a heating system for $1000 or less (less is better) that also would be very cheap to operate, that would be good. I do worry about making a solar water system being we do get some

-60deg F temps in the winter. Lot of systems look good but I see draw backs for my situation (ex.. freezing lines, loss of sun early, lack of technical knowlege of electric solar systems or even where to buy). Hopefully this reply will help those of you who had questions. I truly do hope that someday I will be able to pass knowledge I learn from here onto others as all you do... thumbs up all. This site is something I have been looking for, for some time.

Firefighter139

Chris

scottsAI · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2006, 02:50:36 PM »

Hello firefighter139,

Tree blocks the sun at 1pm, you may rule out solar.

Very cheap / Low cost wall heater.(anyways)

Says to use metal, I don't think so, simpler versions if this exist. Look around.

2x4 blackened with glazing, simple plastic flaps to act as simple check valve for convection to flow.

Non active system.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1985_January_February/Tap_The_Sun

Everything comes down to cost. OK: $36 waste oil stove:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html

Attach a Stove room to your existing building.

Seal the stove so no room air goes into combustion chamber.

Use heat exchanger etc. Many ways to address your issues.

I have a friend from Iowa, claimed is windy in the winter. Electric heat with wind gen is an option.

Seal up the place to reduce the heat you need. How thick is the current insulation? As thick as your house? Should be for the same reasons.

Vestibule added to the door for entry. (make it part of the stove room?)

Have fun,

Scott.

Darren73 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2006, 04:13:04 AM »

did you know that wood dust is explosive???

Regards

Darren

JSNH · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2006, 11:17:39 AM »

I have a 18' x 36' woodshop with a 24' x 24'metal/welding area attached. I am in New Hampshire and use the shop on weekends. I heat with a barrel stove. The barrel kit costs under $40 and the barrels are free. You build the kit and put 3" of sand on the bottom and off you go. I have 4 years on this barrel so they last. The best thing no wood waste you burn it all. With the thin metal in the 55 gallon drums heat is nearly instant. Since you have a chiminy this would be your best option in my opinion.

DanG · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2006, 04:41:11 PM »

Because things are flammable, combustible, explosive is more reason to have a shop lounge area around the heat source with a good safety radius built in free from any tools or materials.

I have heated a shop with coal before and had an errant spray foam can turn its top nozzle area convex from over pressure. Looking at the top of one of those cans you will notice a sepentine molded stamping put there for pressure relief. From 8 foot away the can was exposed to the radiant heat of a coal fire on a -5°F night - I can't begin to imagine what a mess that would have made if a seam had failed, though the plastic cap did reach supersonic speed before putting a perfect round divot in the ceiling.

Coal would not be my first choice for heating a building as it is very hard to keep a low controlled fire, but is dense and easy to store and in my case the stove and the coal were free. I just recommend you keep the heating appliance up front and square in center of comings and goings so off-season storage habits or out-of-sight, out-of-mind heat source won't set you up for a similar incident..

Countryboy · « **Reply #13 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:47:02 PM »

Paint fumes? What about them? Think about it...

Most likely, if the paint fumes are a high enough concentration to flash, the human painter will have passed out from the fumes. That's assuming the painter isn't wearing a respirator and using proper ventilation. Then again, if someone has the money to afford proper ventilation equipment, they will make sure they have a safe heat, regardless of cost. They'd do everything right.

I know autobody shops with high concentrations of paint fumes - with an open flame propane heater on the wall. If it's really chilly, they fire up a torpedo heater. They have really big exhaust fans venting the paint fumes out of the paint booth too. If you do things right, and use a little common sense, it's safe to use an open flame around paint fumes.

You can extinguish a match in a can of gasoline too...

Wood dust is explosive? So what... Think about it...

If the wood dust is a high enough concentration to flash, visibility will be so low that the human woodworker will be busy trying to keep from chopping their hands off in a power saw.

That is, if the human woodworker hasn't passed out from oxygen deprivation from breathing so much wood dust.

A shop vac or dust collection system can easily keep wood dust concentrations low enough that you won't have to worry about wood dust explosions.

firefighter139 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:13:11 PM »

Thank you for the reply... any info is good info! Looking for more of something like solar heat, heat but with a storage unit, something like that, so I can work in the evenings. Just as you explained I have responded to many garage/workshop fire where they were heating with some kind of flame unit and something lit off....

firefighter139 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:15:51 PM »

Great drawing and it did open some things for me. Think you for the input!!!!!!!!!!!!

firefighter139 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:20:43 PM »

I worry because many of the flamable things will be also stored in this area. I have responded to many of garage fire which was started from some flamable liquid's, Like strippers, cleaners...gas... or dirtied rags...etc. So I am looking to take that worry out all together.

firefighter139 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:22:36 PM »

yea...duh... am a Fire Fighter... anyway looking for a non-flame system no matter what others say is ok.

Countryboy · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2006, 05:08:14 PM »

Ever see one of those outdoor wood stoves? The flame is contained in a shack away from the house or garage. The heat is exchanged through water pipes and a radiator with a fan on it.

It wouldn't be difficult to build one on your own.

GaryGary · « **Reply #19 on:** September 14, 2006, 10:43:49 AM »

Hi,

This is the solar heater I use to heat my shop:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/solar_barn_project.htm

Its pretty simple to build, and very inexpensive -- less than 3 dollars a sqft

You can also add direct gain solar windows that will provide good solar heating and daylighting as well -- really nice for a shop. Just be sure to have a way to insulate them for the night when losses are high.

More simple solar heating ideas here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm

Gary

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Author Topic: Need some help (Read 3751 times)