Author Topic: Makeing fuel for heat  (Read 8942 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

harley1782000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • I thought so too.....
Makeing fuel for heat
« on: April 22, 2009, 08:48:42 PM »
Ok, I have search the board for my fuel question but not sure what I am looking for so I am going to ask since I didn't find what I was looking for.  What I am asking is I grow field corn, I want to make fuel out of it to run a small furnace to heat a green house.  Has anyone tried this or am I just barking up a very tall tree.  I know I would have to make corn alcohol, not really sure on how to do that.  Then I would have to convert a oil furnace to burn it.  Has anyone tried this at all???  I would love all the input that I can get on it.


Thanks

Jim

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 08:48:42 PM by (unknown) »

TomW

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 5130
  • Country: us
Just burn the corn itself...
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 03:26:08 PM »
While I think it is wrong on many levels to burn food for fuel, if I had to use corn for fuel I would just burn corn as is, stalks and cobs included. Less processing, etc. Designs are available to build shell corn burners and you can buy them. In fact, here in corn country lots of folks burn shell corn.


Tom

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 03:26:08 PM by TomW »

kurt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
  • Country: us
    • website
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 03:38:46 PM »
you can buy a corn stove that will burn feed corn at your local fireplace/wood stove store here they used to be popular before the price of corn went up now everyone burns wood pellets in them because all the corn stoves i have seen can burn either one..... but you can buy a pellet stove that is not rated for corn....  
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 03:38:46 PM by kurt »

richhagen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1597
  • Country: us
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 05:00:52 PM »
If anything, I would burn the stalks, and return the ash to the field.  I would tend to think that corn would have higher value than as a fireplace fuel.  Turning it into ethanol and then burning that adds another layer of complexity (and regulations here) in addition to having higher value uses than as a fuel for heat only.  Rich
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 05:00:52 PM by richhagen »
A Joule saved is a Joule made!

12AX7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 814
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 06:37:23 PM »
Hello!


Yes, I think the tree your barking up is very tall!

Your idea would make up a couple of different projects, in addition to growing and harvesting the corn.



  1.  Drying it
  2.  Storing it
  3.  Feeding the furnace
  4.  Control of the burn/heat
  5.  Intake/exhaust
  6.  Dealing with the ash


Not to mention the furnace, permits and insurance issues.


I've kicked around the idea of making a pellet/biomass burner and have been collecting possible parts for it.


Not knowing your plans for your greenhouse or the weather in your area.

Fresh Veggies in true winter conditions..  ect ect.


I think shelled corn takes more effort but lends its self to a easier "automatic" system, as well as storing it.  (no one likes mice/rats)


If you haven't already looked, I'd suggest looking at a pellet/biomass stove.

Yes you could build one, if you have the proper skills and equipment.  But there are plenty of devils in the details!


Also take note that a "pellet stove" isn't set up to burn corn.


If you are going through all the effort and have plenty of corn available I'd suggest looking into heating your home with a corn furnace.


good luck!

ax7

Mark

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 06:37:23 PM by 12AX7 »

GaryGary

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
    • Build-It-Solar
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 06:57:55 PM »
Hi,

You can burn dried corn.


Have a look at: www.IburnCorn.com  -- this is a good forum on corn burning.

and more here: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/biofuels.htm#Corn


The furnaces can be pretty automatic due to the uniformity of the corn.

But, you are at the mercy of corn price variations, which can be extreme.


You can check on the price of corn per ton, and use this calculator to see how it compares with other fuels on price:

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/Fuels/FuelCompare.htm


Here is a little clip from the IBurnCorn site:

---

Six Dollar Corn

Thursday, 10 April 2008


Much has changed over the four years I have been burning corn. When I first started, the market price, the price the farmer was getting paid for #2 grade corn, was $1.43/bu. Though at that time, various service charges brought the delivered price, at a corn burner's door, to $2.20/bu. I remember at the time, being quite grumbly about the fact I was being chiseled by my local grain co-op for eighty cents. I would dearly love to be paying those prices now. What a difference time makes, eh?

---


I have to agree with some of the other comments that it seems somehow wrong to be burning food.


Gary

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 06:57:55 PM by GaryGary »

BigBreaker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 07:21:58 AM »
You can avoid almost all of those problems by gasifying the silage first.  I'd recommend googling wood gasifier and bio-mass gasifier for a starting point.


All solid fuels have handling problems, but assuming you are happy with batch runs in the gasifier stage (which you can start and stop) the fuel comes to your burner as a gas that can be metered within some bounds.


I'd use exhaust and/or waste heat from the gasifier/burner to dry the silage.  It would start out a bit moist for the process.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 07:21:58 AM by BigBreaker »

harley1782000

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • I thought so too.....
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 01:00:17 PM »
Well with the links you guys all gave me, Thank you very much.  I think that I will just use a small little coal stove that I have and burn the corn on the cob.  I can not justifie buying a corn burner since my green house is only 10 foot long by 8 feet wide.  Nothing huge.  I have installed pex tubing in the concrete so I can heat the floor.  I thought about rapping the chimmney pipe with some half inch copper tubeing and then just run a slow pump just to move the liguid in the pipe and have a small 5 gallon reserve tank, But thank you for all that replied!!!


Thanks again,

Jim

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 01:00:17 PM by harley1782000 »

scottsAI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 884
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 01:46:26 PM »
GaryGary,


$2.2 represents a 54% markup, I would go directly to farmers.

Maybe they have some less than #2 grade they need to get rid of... might save some cash.

Farmers are business men, they too are looking for the best deal. Bartering...


"that it seems somehow wrong to be burning food."

Understand the thoughts, yet if the land was growing trees would you feel the same? Still growing something!


Heating I would chose solar heat and more insulation. Yet backup heating is needed, nice to use a renewable resource. Its all about the money, which is cheaper short term and long term, always balancing out what you have to what you need to what you like/want.


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 01:46:26 PM by scottsAI »

mbeland

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 08:16:09 AM »
Cutting trees usually mean maintaining a forest habitat. If you grow trees, at least you run the chance of creating some habitat that has much more value to biodiversity (and to you: mushrooms, windbreaks, gaming, water protection, fruits, taking a walk, etc.) than a corn field. It usually doesn't grow as fast as corn but you can harvest far more in one shot so less trouble. Wood is an overall winner in many respects. Usually, farmers have some land still wooded. Better to produce your fuel from that. Use the excess corn to feed something or ultimately if it is no good, return to the field to fertilize.


My 2 cents


Martin

« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 08:16:09 AM by mbeland »

zeusmorg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 364
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 08:51:41 AM »
 You have to watch "robbing" heat from a chimney, It can lower the temperatures too low, and allow the chimney to become coated with combustible material, which can cause a chimney fire at some point.

 If you really want to use alcohol as a fuel, there are many sites on the net that deal with alcohol production, It's really not that hard to do. I had built a small setup to power a bugeye sprite, I even used a solar still to distill the alcohol, thereby lowering fuel use. Of course, my fuel needs in that car weren't as great as heating would be.


 I do agree with several statements posted above burning corn as fuel directly would probably increase efficiency,also burning potential food as fuel, to me seems wasteful.

I made my alcohol out of waste products, mainly doughnuts and trashed baked goods from several bakeries nearby.

 What you need to look at is what waste products, and resources are available to you for producing heat. If you live near a large town ask the tree trimmers what they do with their waste. I have a friend that is a tree trimmer, and he dumps cut logs for me ready to burn. Usually two or three loads fulfills my supplemental heat needs for a winter! ( i use a small potbelly stove in the basement and have a natural gas furnace to provide additional heat when needed.) Check craigslist I see a lot of "free firewood" ads locally.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 08:51:41 AM by zeusmorg »

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 11:48:16 AM »
You could go a compeletly different route. You did mention an oil burner.

Do you already have one? if so go locate a resturaunt or two and ask to haul the used oil away, let it sit for a couple weeks were it can stay warm and keep it covered.

Burn the top clear stuff instead of oil.

Pepa, has done this, even built his own. The old oil burner he has setup in his barn runs directly off the old oil that has settled for weeks on end. It'll run ya out of the barn if left too high. Nearly nuthin in the bottom with regards to ashes.


RANT:

In as far as making Alky, I do hope soon , people get off the corn bandwagon.

Using ruined corn or spoiled corn "stuff" is perfect for not waisting, but corn is not even close to being ideal for making Alky.

I call it Alky instead of Alcohol , the later is for human consumption.

Alky is for fuel.

Feed corn when processed for fuel can then be fed to animals. It's called two names, wet & dry feedstock. Both are good as feed as it's now concentrated protein feed, think leaner meat, pork, etc.


Using prime corn for fuel is nonsense IMO, unless there's an over abundance and I don't have my BBQ grill close enough to roast it :)

END RANT:


I agree with Z, there's tons of other stuff out there to make Alky with.


Keep Smiling;

Bruce S

« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 11:48:16 AM by Bruce S »
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

troy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2010, 02:46:40 PM »
Don't forget, large scale commercial ethanol plants, designed to squeeze every last little bit of efficiency out, barely make more energy from the ethanol that that used to grow and process the corn.

It is somewhat more efficient to burn the corn directly, but still not much better than break even.

To make it worse, if you grow corn under typical north american conditions, you're loosing topsoil at a prodigious and unsustainable rate.  You are effectively burning your topsoil for heat.  Bad for the planet and bad for you if it's your topsoil.

Corn for fuel to make heat hardly every makes sense.  Wood pellets and paper pellets, since they are made from a waste product, much better from an efficiency standpoint, but perhaps more expensive.

HTH,

troy

electrondady1

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3120
  • Country: ca
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 09:33:41 AM »
i live in town so what do i know.
but maybe build a hen house next to the green house
if you feed the corn to chickens ,
they produce manure that you could use for methane.(thats the modern  part)
when it's finished you can spread that residue on your field or green house fruit /veggies.

chickens taste good and so do their eggs.

(don't let the kids give the chickens names)



TomW

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 5130
  • Country: us
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2010, 09:46:37 AM »


(don't let the kids give the chickens names)



Never give potential food names other than  "Cured Pork Products" or "Rib Eye" and certainly never make a pet of something you may have to eat.  ::)

Dogs and cats are exceptions as they would be last ditch survival rations.

Sorry, Buddy




you would be last on the list well after the chickens, deer, possums, coons and those lazy cats.

Tom

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2010, 09:49:50 AM »
When we *did* give a name to one of the calves on my aunt's beef farm that required daily attention (for a dodgy rumen) until it met its abattoir, I made sure I labelled each pack with the name as it went in the freezer.

"Hmm, another sirloin from Balloon" I'd think when retrieving it later...  %-P

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

zap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1107
  • There's an app for that
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2010, 10:32:42 AM »
"Hmm, another sirloin from Balloon"

As disconnected from the food stream as most of us are, at least here in the U.S., naming your steak probably isn't a bad idea.
I think everyone should visit the nearest "processing plant".

Most who raise their own food have a very healthy respect for said food since they've seen the entire process.

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2010, 08:57:43 AM »

chickens taste good and so do their eggs.

(don't let the kids give the chickens names)

Yup, so does rabbit.. but rabbit doesn't make good drummies like chicken does :) Plus they scream like little kids when you wel.. ya know.


A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Opera House

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 10:02:28 AM »
Has anyone tried coffee grounds.  A few years ago I heard of a Canadian company making fireplace logs with used dried coffee grounds.  I started making them and binding them with a mixture of candle wax and used cooking oil.  I just use them as starters for a fire pit by the hot tub. Surprising, they don't smell like coffee.  At the time they said the grounds had a higher heat content than wood.  Starbucks was giving away bags of grounds for compost.  Grounds alone should work in a fluidized bed burner.

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 10:26:39 AM »
"Hmm, another sirloin from Balloon"

As disconnected from the food stream as most of us are, at least here in the U.S., naming your steak probably isn't a bad idea.
I think everyone should visit the nearest "processing plant".

Most who raise their own food have a very healthy respect for said food since they've seen the entire process.
Or watch the PBS show " Food INC" there are those that once they watch it will become vegans. One interesting section was when they were talking about the veggie libel law. Who knew?

Cheers
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

zander1976

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2010, 12:45:15 AM »
Does corn oil burn, if so how does it compare to bezel. Cars can run on veggie oil from deep fryers so I would guess corn oil would work the same.

How to make corn oil:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5040521_make-corn-oil-home.html

Oddie

willib

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2414
  • Country: us
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2010, 12:54:04 AM »
Has anyone tried coffee grounds.  A few years ago I heard of a Canadian company making fireplace logs with used dried coffee grounds.  I started making them and binding them with a mixture of candle wax and used cooking oil.  I just use them as starters for a fire pit by the hot tub. Surprising, they don't smell like coffee.  At the time they said the grounds had a higher heat content than wood.  Starbucks was giving away bags of grounds for compost.  Grounds alone should work in a fluidized bed burner.
Yeah i mixed coffee grounds with veggie oil , it made a Sterno type flame
Carpe Ventum (Seize the Wind)

Rover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2010, 08:33:47 AM »

you would be last on the list well after the chickens, deer, possums, coons and those lazy cats.

Tom



These guys would be last on the list, after TomW :)

sorry Tom
Rover
<Where did I bury that microcontroller?>

RP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
  • A dog with novelty teeth. What could go wrong?
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2010, 02:15:56 PM »
Awwww.  A picture for the slang dictionary next to the definition for "goofballs"

Rover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Makeing fuel for heat
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2010, 03:12:06 PM »
I need to apologize for posting on such an old thread, apparently didn't se it the first time and was surfing around and saw TomW bud.  Also  way of topic... but he started it

(The black one is my wifes girl, the white one is my dude, both are rescued greyhounds)
Rover
<Where did I bury that microcontroller?>