Author Topic: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower  (Read 4238 times)

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(unknown)

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No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« on: October 12, 2004, 09:55:50 AM »
I'd like to design a waterwheel system that would be able to provide a somewhat constantenergy supply. The materials used should be as cheap as possible, and should all be things that do not have to be imported from the west. That way, I believe that such a system could be used in the various villages to take care of some of their energy problems.


Technology

An under-shot wheel seems to me to be the only viable option. I've seen a bit here and there about some wheel which work underwater, but have not been able to get enough information about them. Without head, and undershot wheel is the only option, I believe.


Because the area has a rainy season and a dry season, the volume of water is going to vary greatly. As such, I think the structure would have to be floated on the river. This can be done cheaply using plastic 50Liter containers.


The wheel spokes would be made of bamboo (easily replaceable if they rot, and are light), the bottom of the wheel of thick plywood, and the paddles of plastic. I though to cut the plastic into squares, and angle them in one direction.


Does what I have said so far make sense? And the main question I have: How big should the paddles be in relation to the diameter of the wheel, also, how much of the wheel should be submerged? Any other tips on making this project work?

« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 09:55:50 AM by (unknown) »

nothing to lose

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2004, 12:20:56 PM »
Sounds like you got a good idea what you want.


I think it should work fine as you discribe it, sort of a paddle wheel boat but the water turning the wheel instead of a motor.


I think most the questions you asked though will depend on the water source. The deeper you go the more resistance your gonna get with the paddles entering and leaving the water, but the deeper you go most likely the stronger the force of moving water which is what you need. As for the paddles, I would think maybe a curved shape would be better than flat. It might grab and hold the water better entering near the top of the river where it would still be at a steeper angle, near the bottom of the stoke where it is vertical it would be working well, and as it raises near the top again being curved may have less drag and resistance as it leaves the water.


I have noticed sometimes there are 4 types of rivers. Those with top moving water, but the lower water is fairly still. Under tow rivers, top is fairly still, but alot of currant deeper down. Rivers that move fast at all levels, And rivers that don't move much at all!

 I often go canoeing on a river that has all 4 types! In just a few miles too.


At various points on that river, I can not paddle and the river moves me pretty good, I will basically sit in one place but get out of the canoe and the river tries to sweep my legs away, some spots it's like being in a swimming pool and seems no water is moving. Another place I can sit something on the bottom of the river and it stays there, but the river is pushing everything on top hard.


 What type of river location you have as I mention above would be a major factor how deep you need the wheel. If it's almost all surface water moving then you need to be shallow, since going deeper into standing water will just add drag.


If you have still water on top and fast currant deeper, then you need to get past the still water and into that deeper currant.


"How big should the paddles be in relation to the diameter of the wheel, also, how much of the wheel should be submerged? Any other tips on making this project work?"


Now as far as the size of the paddles, I don't actually think it matters as far as wheel size, what you need is to capture as much force from the water as you can, where ever it is, and with out any extra drag in the slower or standing water.


 So lets say the top water is fairly still and you have strong currants 2' deep. You need a larger wheel so you can reach 2'deep and then paddles at the 2' mark and deeper where the currant is. So lets say you only have 1' of strong currant. Ok being it starts at 2', then you need 3' of wheel in the water and the paddles would be 1' high so as to catch the currant which is only at 2' to 3' depth. Larger paddle would create drag in still water above the 2' mark (plus everywhere else too) and provide no bennifit.


 On the other hand if it's only top water with a currant then you need less wheel in the water, only as deep as the currant goes and a paddle that reaches from the top to bottom of the currant area, but without extending into still water.


If the entire river is moving strong top to bottom then you could use a wheel and paddle that reaches to nearly the bottom if you wanted.


Your just dead in the water if it's still like a swimming pool and not much is gonna help.


As far as how wide the wheel and paddles should be side to side, that depends on the force of the currant and how much you need to capture. If a mild currant and you need alot, then of course you need wider blades to catch more moving water. If a really strong currant and you only need a little power you can use narrower paddles.


How far the wheel needs to extend into the water is only a factor of where the water is moving best.


 You might set the same wheel up on 3 rivers and have to make changes each time to get the best results, or maybe even any results at all.


If you ever fished much in rivers you might know alot of what I mean about depth and currant.

  Cast a bobin into the river with a lure on 1' of line and it just sits in one place, put the lure on a 3' line cast to the same spot, bobin now tries to run down river hard! That's still water on top and curant near 3' deep.

 Sometime it's oposite, bobin and 1'lure tries to run away, but a 3' lure just sits there. That's top currant and still wter below.


 Might be a good idea to take a pole, some bobins, lures, and sinkers to the river with you as currant checking tools :)

.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 12:20:56 PM by nothing to lose »

DERFMOOSE

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2004, 06:03:43 PM »
   RE WATERWHEEL;

           Mother Earth News Had an articl on wqter wheels made from a hay rake wheel in issue 82 or 100 was used for pumping water but might work for re
« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 06:03:43 PM by DERFMOOSE »

RZ

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2004, 08:09:18 PM »
Heres a thought, make your paddles from the 50 liter barrels or if you can get barrels about 50 gallons like the kind soda syrup comes in and cut them in half top to bottom i would think the clamshell shape would catch water really good. Just a thought RZ
« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 08:09:18 PM by RZ »

nobicus

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 12:15:37 AM »
In Mediaeval times there were lots and lots of floating mills with undershot wheels on the River Po in Europe.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 12:15:37 AM by nobicus »

Mark

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2004, 02:46:12 AM »
Exactly. Most modern designs seem to concentrate on overshot wheels, when I think the older technology is more viable for many purposes...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 02:46:12 AM by Mark »

Mark

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2004, 02:47:45 AM »
The 50 liter jerrycans are quite big. I was thinking that if you were to use the jerry can as a paddle, there would be a tendency for water to collect inside, making it a lot more difficult for the wheel to turn....
« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 02:47:45 AM by Mark »

Mark

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2004, 03:08:33 AM »
Here: http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/6032/ Excellent, that was very useful!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 03:08:33 AM by Mark »

nothing to lose

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2004, 02:40:16 PM »
"The 50 liter jerrycans are quite big. I was thinking that if you were to use the jerry can as a paddle, there would be a tendency for water to collect inside, making it a lot more difficult for the wheel to turn...."


I think it would be the oposite if you have the water force available then the larger paddles made from the barrels should grab more moving water and turn the wheel with more force.


As I mentioned in that really long post, it will mostly depend where your currant is and how much you have available. Like on the river I canoe on, when it's narrow the entire river has lots of force. Many of the wider areas though will only have the currant on top or near bottom, has something to do with the width and depth of the river and whats up ahead. I think near any type of falls it's top currant, but a wide deep area it's mostly lower carrunt and fairly still on top. In the really wide area's it's alomost like a small lake and seems to be pretty still because the flow is spread out over such a large area.

 

« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 02:40:16 PM by nothing to lose »

domwild

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2004, 07:39:17 PM »
Ecoinnovation of New Zealand have some pictures of overshot mills. Have seen pictures of wheels made out of two truck rims connected via vanes made out of roof guttering. Then a chain to transfer the rotation with a 10x increase in RPM by choosing the smallest motor cycle sprocket at the alternator and one of the largest at the truck rim.


Dominic

« Last Edit: October 13, 2004, 07:39:17 PM by domwild »

elvin1949

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2004, 12:41:01 AM »
Mark

email me

elvin
« Last Edit: October 14, 2004, 12:41:01 AM by elvin1949 »

hvirtane

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2004, 02:55:06 PM »
I think that another working solution

would be to build a raft with a kind

of 'turbines' made metal plates

cut off from drums.


I've got some drawings.

If you'll email me I can send

drawings.


Still another cheap solution

would be to use savonius

turbines under water.


- Hannu

« Last Edit: October 16, 2004, 02:55:06 PM by hvirtane »

Dennis

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Re: No-head home-built and cheap hydropower
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2005, 01:19:16 PM »
Dear Mark,

   It has been a while since I have visited this site, but I have been researching this problem of power through river flow for about two years and have two very interesting designs.

   The first one is called a Gravity Wheel. It is technology inspired from the ancient water lifting devise known as the Persian Waterwheel or Noria.

   My site is www://WildWaterPower.com ;a site that features the norias is;

 http://www.experimentarium.dk/uk/naturvidenskab_og_teknik/schiolers/index.html

   The problem that arises from the Gravity Wheel is that to make fifty foot of head, you need to construct a fifty foot wheel. This can be a bit much.

    So I started looking for something a little more homeowner friendly. I came across this site (I love the internet!):

     http://aquamor.tripod.com/Wheel.htm

   I have seen the spiral pump used with small undershot waterwheel, but this was the first time I had seen one that was large. This inspired me, since I realized that the spiral pump turns the slow movement of an undershot waterwheel into pressure-with no moving parts!

   I am at this moment constructing a four foot tall by three foot wide wheel, made of PVC piping (just glue it together!). It will float (the support frame on the outside of the wheel is 4 inch PVC which will provide buoyancy ) and be tied off to the riverside. It has legs, to stop it from bottoming out.

   I am trying to make it an enclosed system. This required me to have a small tank where the pressurized water and air are collected, the air is released at a certain PSI. The PSI will be low enough to allow the water to build up in the tan, until it gets to a height where it will seal off the pressure relief. This self regulating system will make sure the turbine will never run out of water.

   Oh, I guess I did not mention that, the pressurized water from the Gravity Wheel (from lifting) and the pressurized water and air from the Pressure Wheel are run through a turbine. The wheel just acts as a medium for transforming the high volume-low pressure of the river into low volume-high pressure.

   These two systems were designed with one purpose in mind. To get rid of the gearing involved in making the flow of the river useful to run a generator. The gearing is expensive, complicates things and is just a pain in the butt.

-Dennis  

« Last Edit: April 16, 2005, 01:19:16 PM by Dennis »