Need help to build 30hp generator powered by water discharge.

[masood]

I need to build a hydro driven pump. Direct driven or hydro powered generator driven. I already have a tube well running. Its electric motor is 25HP. Connected to a grid. Water table is 35ft. Height of discharge is 6ft from ground level. Discharge pipe is 6" dia. Pump is centrifugal lowered in well 25ft down. Water discharge is 1.5 cubic foot per second.

I have a similar well 50ft away for back up purpose. Can a system be built to run the other well on combined discharges of both wells into single pool through a hydro turbine? E.g. the first well is switched on with water discharge falling on the blades of the turbine. The second well is then operated by an electric generator. As soon as the turbine receives both discharges the second generator engine coupled to the turbine is turned off. Will both discharges be enough to sustain a dynamo of 30hp to keep the cycle running?

Or there is some other method to keep the 2nd pump running by the discharge of the electric driven pump.

                            masood Afzal

[whatsnext]

Masood, Do you think that you are going to get more power out than you put in? If so then the answer is no. If you just want to pump a bunch of water buy a bigger pump for your first well.

John...........

[masood]

JOHN                                                                                     Thank you for your comment.The main idea is to save electric cost.If i can calculate how much HP is produced by 3 cubic ft per sec water falling on turbine blades from ahead of approx 4 ft. This hieght can be increased to some extent.A set of heavy flywheels can be added to elongated turbine axles to increase power.Question is how can i calculate how much output this generates.Once this is known,i can go on to find how much water i can pump out by this power.Any additional quantity is a bonus and decreases the operational time of the electric pump to that extent,energy costs here are grizzly.There is lot of sunshine round the year,can a solar option be integrated in this system,will it be economical?All in all if i can draw out at least 1 cusec of water by this system,it will be a huge success and will benefit so many farmers who are working on desert soils and finding it difficult to make both ends meet due to high energy costs.

[Vtbsr]

Hello Masood, I am a little confused on your details. On the first well it sounds like you are pumping the water a extra 6 feet of vertical height (head) and letting it fall back to a certain level. If you don't have to raise the water that high don't. The 25 hp motor pump will put out more cfs at the lower head. How high are you lifting the water? Is there much difference in heigh between to two wells? If you have some head ,a hydrolic ram might work. The ram pumps with out electric motors. Need a little more info thanks

[tecker]

 The way to approach this is to pump the well with a solar or wind dump load to a tank /cistern then spill it on a generator head . another plan is to  use a wind pump of some kind .That works and is easy to do. plenty of info here and other places on the net.

[masood]

Hello vtbsr, tecker thanks for your contribution -

            It took 2 days to get the details. The site is 400km away. I am posting the diagram. Hope It explains every thing. The two wells are exactly the same. Only one is dormant and is only for back up in case of failure of 1st pump.

            Hydraulic ram is interesting. But I think it will not supply 1 or 1.5 cubic ft/second. Is there some address where I can view the working of a ram? What I actually wanted was to generate enough power to run the 2nd well to full capacity. Both discharges combined are 9 gallons per second. That is approximatly 76 pounds per second, falling from a height of 4 feet.Pressure from discharge pipe is so much that it can't be stoped by hand pressure alone.

            I think that lifting water to a cistern will consume more power than it will generate by falling down on to a turbine. Can any body plz calculate how much horse power the above volume of water will generate and what is the additional power factor gained per foot of raised discharge head. Thank again.

                                                       masood  

[BurksFallsMan]

Masood: Do I understand correctly if I think that you want to run a generator of approximately 30HP with the energy from a 25 feet drop and 1.5 gal/sec ?

You can use existing formulas to check the output with those parameters and my feeling is that you will not get even 1/2HP. (300+ watts)

Wilson

[Gary D]

Hi Masood,Here are a few links on ram pumps. Not sure if they will work for what you need tho...

The first is a long download, might want to view last. I included it just in case you decide to build one yourself.  Gary D.

http://ncollier.com/rampumps.pdf

http://www.riferam.com

http://ncollier.com/rams.html

[masood]

Hello BurksFallsMan                                                                                 Thanks.You are right.The HP of single discharge comes to approx.1.37HP.Found out after posting.Shows where you land when you dont do your homework properly.I am now considering to bore a small well alongside the pond and  fit in a small turbine,to be driven by the discharge. this will add ,hopefully,25% more water.Still a good saving.                                                     Thanks to GaryD,for your very useful reference to water ram site.I needed it for another project in hilly area.Can you think of any way a ram can be used instead of a turbine to pump out underground water.Thanks again.