Author Topic: Homebrew Hydro experiment  (Read 5925 times)

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DanB

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Homebrew Hydro experiment
« on: June 11, 2004, 07:58:22 AM »
It's been a fun couple of weeks.  We finished up Matt's 15' wind turbine, made good progress on a similar 14, or 15' diameter (not sure yet) wind turbine, and we started a  building an experimental hydro electric plant with our freind and neighbor Scott.  He's the same fellow who built the  Rooster wind turbine.  Scott lives near the creek.  While he could run a lot of pipe and probably get 10' or more of head, the goal is to run this year round... and keep it simple.  So the feed pipe will be 4" diameter, and he'll not be taking the whole creek, so the machine needs to run off about 3' - 4' head.  Considering the low head, and simplicity - we decided to try building along the lines of a Banki (or Michell) turbine.  We'll see how it goes, it may run as well or better as a simple overshot wheel.  The goal is to make everything very adjustable so that we can experiment.  Scott used to have something similar, a squirrel cage blower - hooked via a V belt to a tape drive motor in the same location where we'll be trying this.   It was good for about 15-20 watts, 24/7... year round.  Not bad!  Were hoping perhaps to get double that, I think the belt cost him, and I think the squirrel cage blower was far from ideal.  He also had problems with the bearings in the motor, and keeping belt tension just "perfect"....





We figured 4" diameter conduit would be good to use for the "paddles" in the wheel - and for the back side of the nozzel so we could connect PVC to it.





We quartered the conduit on a bandsaw and then cut them into 10" long pieces (The wheel is 10" wide)





We cutout two 12" diameter steel disks (from the base of a dead Onan generator set).  The wheel is 12" diameter.  In the background you can see the "paddles".





We made a template, and glued it to one of the disks, and punched the locations of all the holes, and the "edges" of the paddles - and then we drilled small holes so that we could properly locate the position, and the angle of the paddles.  The wheel is also to be drilled out to fit what we believe is the wheel hub off a dodge truck, but were not really quite sure...





Here the wheel is partially assembled.  This part was tricky, keeping everything square and such.





There it is pretty much finished up, along with bits of the frame which are being welded together, and the wheel hub.





Thats where we left off last Monday.  It's starting to take shape anyhow!  The nozzel is bent from a single piece of sheet metal with sides welded on it - and 4" conduit in the back.





The magnet rotors are on 11" diameter Dodge??  brake disks.  We used   1 X 2 X 1/2 NdFeB Blocks in this machine.  I made a plywood  template to lay them out.   This is almost identical to the rotors in Hugh's Wind Turbine plans.





Pictured above is the stator before casting, we made all the connections on the inside diameter... it looks nicer that way!  The stator was a bit of a shot in the dark.  I figure it'll turn pretty slow with only 3' of head, so I was shooting for a cutin (12 Volts) at about 40 rpm.  The coils are wound from #17 wire, 125 turns each.  We'll bring out 6 leads so we can choose from Star, or Delta.  The back magnet rotor will also have 3 jacking screws so that we can easily adjust the airgap to either load up, or lessen the load on the wheel, and hopefully all this will allow us to reasonably match the alternator to the wheel and the water resource.  We'll see!





Thats where it sits for now!  Very nearly finished.. a couple of things yet to do.  The nozzel will have a plate added so we can narrow it down a bit if the water flow is too low.  We'll probably paint it, and we'll probably make a shroud that keeps water off the bearing and the alternator.  I guessed pretty well on the cutin speed - right now, through the rectifiers we get about 12.5 volts at 50 rpm, but I can still take up nearly 1/4" in the airgap, so that could be improved, my guess is it will come in right at about 40 rpm.  The whole thing is fun.. it is a shot in dark really - we don't really know what were doing here and have no experience.  There is a lot  of guessing at work... a bit of intuition, and hopefully a bit of good luck!  We'll be quite happy if we see 30 watts or so.  Hopefully on Monday we'll test it.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 07:58:22 AM by (unknown) »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

TomW

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# of paddles...
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2004, 08:35:03 AM »
Dan;


I seem to recall reading somewhere that this type of turbine should use a prime number [1,3,5,7.11,13, etc] of paddles. Just curious if anyone else has read this or can explain why that would be so? I know prime numbers show up a lot in nature and was quite curious why someone would suggest a prime # of paddles?


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 08:35:03 AM by TomW »

DanB

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Re: # of paddles...
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2004, 08:43:49 AM »
Well... we built it before I saw the page suggesting a prime number.

The reason is evidently harmonics... and vibration.  My guess is it applies to very powerful, fast machines which have lots of head and ... run fast.


Ours has 16 paddles, itll be so slow I think it will not be an issue.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 08:43:49 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

Gary D

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2004, 09:27:56 AM »
Hi Dan, I was wondering if you know the gallon rate the creek supplies? The link page you supplied was fantastic! Would be great if when you get it running, if you could put an rpm reader on for the difference between no load and loaded speeds. As always your experiments are informative. Thanks, Gary D.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 09:27:56 AM by Gary D »

DanB

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2004, 09:34:41 AM »
we never measured it yet Gary (should've... but didnt).

Well do that though when we test it - be fun to get a rough idea of efficiency.  I doubt itll be very efficient, but it'd be fun to know where we are with it all.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 09:34:41 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

stop4stuff

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2004, 11:59:58 AM »
cool :)


would you get more power out of the same size paddles if they were around a cylinder, making them more like buckets instead of paddles?

« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 11:59:58 AM by stop4stuff »

Vtbsr

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2004, 02:37:11 PM »
Hi Dan. I built a cross flow turbine before and you might want to try a few things. If you can get more space between the turbine and alt. to put slinger disks about 12" dia to keep the water from runing back on electronics. The vanes should shoot the water through the middle of the runner and hit the other side. The water jet gives up power twice. You don't want the vanes  set to square or 90 deg. to the incoming jet or it will not drive to the other side. I used the VITA booklet and it had all the specs. Good luck
« Last Edit: June 12, 2004, 02:37:11 PM by Vtbsr »

RobD

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2004, 08:21:26 PM »
Dan,

The Banki is hard to beat because it catches the water twice. If you study the design you'll also see that there is a venturi running into the cage. The efficiency is rated very high. I've been going back and forth here with my stream. If I run, say 2" black plastic pipe 300 feet, I'll get about 15 feet of head and I can make an easy pelton wheel out of table spoons. Trouble is I'll be far away from my batteries. If I run a Banki I miss the year round flow that would constantly fill the two inch pipe when stream drops off about July.

RobD
« Last Edit: June 12, 2004, 08:21:26 PM by RobD »

DanB

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2004, 07:33:07 AM »
Hi!  Thankyou for the thoughts.  We'll see (tomorrow) what happens here...


"If you can get more space between the turbine and alt. to put slinger disks about 12" dia to keep the water from runing back on electronics."


We dont want too much distance  - this whole thing will have to fit under a fairly small insulated box.  But We are planning to put a "drum" around the alternator which will turn with it, so that it keeps most of the water out of the bearing and the electronics.


"The vanes should shoot the water through the middle of the runner and hit the other side. The water jet gives up power twice. You don't want the vanes  set to square or 90 deg."


They're not at 90 deg...

We looked over several designs, and kind of compromised.  All the designs we saw were for quite a bit more head, and it seems like the velocity of the water enters into exactly how wide the vanes are... how they are spaced, and the angle at which the are set.  We almost bolted them in so we could adjust that, but in the end decided not to, figuring we could make a new runner if we wanted.  As it is - the vanes look about right compared to pictures I've seen.  It'll be fun to see anyhow...

« Last Edit: June 13, 2004, 07:33:07 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

Dennis

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Re: Homebrew Hydro experiment
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2004, 05:58:07 AM »
Rob, I do not know how much flow you have, but with 15 foot of head you may want to look at my overshot wheel. It is a new design that uses 4x4's for the frame and square plastic buckets (that you purchase second hand from bakeries) to build the wheel. The slow movement of the wheel is harnessed and multiplied by a durable chain drive. All parts are off the shelf. For more information please see my web site at http://WildWaterPower.com

-Dennis  

« Last Edit: July 04, 2004, 05:58:07 AM by Dennis »