My first project/idea

[firefop]

Greetings all, I'd appricate any ideas you might have.

I've got a six inch pipe that allows a pond to flow under a berm (the road is on top). I've been thinking that since this creek always runs (its somewhat slow however) I might be able to simply run addition pipe and use it to generate some power.

I've been an occasional reader of the boards here for awhile (and have an electronics background) I was hoping some of you might have ideas about how to generate power from the flow while its inside a pipe?

Any examples of this would be helpfull, I don't care if they are real examples or theory, I'd even be interested in ideas on how to generate power inside a larger pipe that carries some other substance than water. Or even examples that don't take into account things like particulate matter in the water stream or whatever =P.

Anyway, My only thought was using a screw type impellor in a straight section of pipe... maybe zigzagging the pipe down the hillside... to allow for several small generators.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Clifford]

Your power is proportional to the vertical drop and the quantity of water.

Of course, there are things like Velocity and Friction that confuse the picture a bit.  

However, in theory, if you have a single generator at the bottom of a single vertical drop it should generate the same amount of power as breaking the drop into a half a dozen separate drops and generators.

Of course, your terrain would determine what is most practical.

Traditionally people would dig canals with minimal vertical drop (which could be several miles long), then channel the water from the canal into a pipe to create a column of water for the generator.  

Or, of course, if you don't like geneators, that is the basic formula for making a GIANT!!!

[strider3700]

how much water are we talking about  and how far down hill does it fall?

Zig zagging would gain you nothing unless you're overpowering a small generator by just letting it all run straight down to it.  

I haven't seen any generators that fit right inside of a pipe but my planned system is a closed system in the sense that the water comes into the shed in a pipe. I'll be placing the turbine inside of a sealed container and letting the excess water run back out in another pipe.  no need to ever see the water.

[firefop]

Estimated water? its a 6 inch pipe, and it flies out of there in a steady flow.

The drop is maybe 25 feet down from the pipe, and possibly another 5 to 7 where the creek exits my property.

The original idea was to pipe it the entire way across (it exit's under another road) I'd like to be make some use of the land covered by this shallow slow moving water. Possibly as garden.

The reason for wanting to zig zag it down the initial drop is I really don't want deal with elevating a support structure for the pipe (I'd rather it just follow the terrain).

Anyway, I'm fairly certian that I'd want to use an in pipe generator. Can anyone think of a good reason why putting impellors on a shaft and sticking it inside the pipe couldn't be used to crank a generator?

[firefop]

I found a post related to what I've been asking about (in pipe generation)

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/9/18/133338/681

Anyone have any ideas about the angle I'd want to achieve with such an elongated impellor?

[nothing to lose]

"Can anyone think of a good reason why putting impellors on a shaft and sticking it inside the pipe couldn't be used to crank a generator? "

Other than you may slow the flow of water through the pipe or if something jams or breaks you might stop the flow completly, and would this then cause the pond to over flow and flood? Is that what you mean

Maybe take a 55 gallon barrel to the pipe and see how long it takes to fill it, then you can figure out how many gallons per minute or hour the pipe is actually putting out.

[Stonebrain]

Hi firefop,

Most efficient turbines can handle only a given amoount of water.

Debit will vary trough the year.Better adjust the turbine to lowest

debit so it will work troughout the year.So,normally you need an overflow

Simplest is to capture the water where it comes out of the pipe in

some kind of reservoir with overflow and lead it in a pvc-pipe

with a relative small diameter(cheaper),just what you need for your turbine

(relative to head and debit)

and lead it the shortest way(cheaper) down to where the water leaves your property.

(Thats where you place your turb).

Well,thats the way I would do it,but it's only me.

Oh yes,;and you could keep your stream 'alive',with fish,

frogs and all kind of waterloving creatures.But that's me

again.

Sorry if didn't use the right english vocabulary.

Cheers,

Jaap

[Laylow]

That's your overflow pipe and shouldn't be sticking anything inside it.  It should actually be a syphon that draws excess water from the pond below the surface.  If you break the syphon or restrict too much flow during heavy rain, you will have an overflow problem.  The road you are talking about is probably the damn and there is probably a low spot where the corner meets the damn.  This would be the emergency overflow area.  If you get too much water flowing here it will wash out your damn (which is also your road).  You can have the overflow pipe terminate a foot or two above a funnel and put your generator in that.  I would just be content with a water wheel generator but you could put whatever you wanted to in a pipe below the funnel.

Please read up on pond maintenance.  You need to know some things if you plan on keeping it for awhile.  Here's a link to a great pdf file that will tell you just about everything you need to know.  http://www.mdc.mo.gov/documents/fish/aquaguides/pondhb.pdf

[Don Cackleberrycreations]

Ok first things first

Do you own the land the pond is on ? Is the pipe running under a public road ?

These would be legal issues.

now with a low water head I would be inclined to go with either an over or under shot water wheel . My personal preference would be an over shot  as you can gain torque from the weight of the water . yes these actually turn slower  but produce quite a bit more torque. Another advantage is you would not be impeeding the natural flow

[Tropical hydro]

Hi guys,

       I think the simplest idea might be to use a "banki cross flow" turbine.

www.planetarypower.com.au

This is the wbsite of north Queenslands' best renewables company. They have been intalling them since 1989.

They are simple and reliable.

sounds like you have a great creek there. It's gotta be able to make loads of power!

[Vtbsr]

If you take a 5 gal bucket, and time the fill time you can get the gal per min. Then you have to get a transit or level to get the vertical drop or head. Then you need the distance of pipe required for the penstock. One last thing is the distance from the generator to the house to figure the transmission line. When you have all that we can get you some more ideas. The impeller in a pipe is called a Kaplen turbine. You would need some good seals for the shaft going into the pipe and the perfect propeler for your flow, hard to do for home workshop. The cross flow would be easier, but a pelton might be better if you have the head.

[Nando]

FIREFOP:

What is your name ?.

If you REALLY want to generate power, then it is necessary to measure the HEAD ( differential height between the upper intake and the lower exit.

You need to measure the water volume you have available then with these values one can calculate the energy available and the best way to attain the highest power harvesting for what you have.

The in-line generator idea is good but more expensive, though the next would be to use a Y couple to feed the water and the shaft and the propeller placed in the straight section of the Y coupling --the end should exit to the open to obtain maximum power.

Another solution would be a plastic Turgo or Pelton properly fed by the water pipe with the necessary nozzle size and the shaft of the turbine to be coupled to a generator that could be DC or AC, all this depending of what you have available.

A number of small generators will be very expensive and less energy producing than a single one with the pipe without breaks or zigzagging just for the heck of it.

Every pipe change in direction reduces the ultimate available energy, this due to water friction increases.

Particulates need to be filtered in size and hardness to prolong the turbine blades.

So supply the head, the water volume available during dry times and during the wet season, also the length of the pipe.

If you need to buy additional pipe length consider the sewer pipe that is cheaper though not good at the end of the pipe, if the the head is greater than 60 feet (is has lower PSI rating) -- so it is OK for places where the pressure is below 30 PSI.

30. feet head = 9.1 meters
    
6. inch may give around 1.5 KW minimum -- INDEED much more if the proper info is supplied -- up to several KW -- I helped a fellow to have 4 KW with a 6 inch pipe and 10 meter head -- so info and you may have a good energy site.
   
   

Regards

Nando

[para t8]

i agree with {nothing to lose}use the creek for your garden and build a wind tur

bine,you can get alot of power from the wind{when its blowing}  para t8.  goodluck                      

[coldspot]

After reading this,

I think the easy way could be done with a simple trolling motor, (for a boat)

Pick one up from yard-sales ect. then build a prop/impellor to fit in side of pipe.

these are already watertight.

But that's just my thoughts.

Happy Holidays.