Powering my RV

[Daddy2Cool]

       I am new to this very informative site and after reading several posts have decided that I can power my trailer with the power of the creek beside it.Although I haven't yet measured the flow and head of the creek (still reading how to do this) I can tell you that it is constant and rises by about 1 foot max at any given time of the summer.Directly below my RV are some rapids that I would estimate fall approximately 4-6' over a 30' section (not at once but gradually). The creek averages about 20-25' in width and has a very strong current.

        There is no electricity on the property so we run our trailer with propane and 12VDC. I do have a small 5.5W  solar panel that I use to trickle charge my marine style battery but would like to design a simple system that would provide enough power to keep the battery (or batteries if that is part of the solution)at a full charge when used frequently.

       We use our trailer up until the snow flies, so the demands of the fan on the trailer furnace can empty a fully charged battery very quickly.

       Although this is my private property I cannot dam the creek, but I could divert some flow to create a small channel for some type of wheel to drive a generating device.

       We have purposely never investigated the thought of bringing in electricity because of A: the cost and more importantly B: ruining the natural beauty of this property we call paradise.

       So if any of you out there have an idea for a small, enviromentally friendly way to do this I would be very grateful.

                           Thank you in advance

                                     Scott

PS> I have pictures of the creek if that helps at all

[Flux]

If you have a 4 ft fall you should be able to do something worthwhile.

If you can divert, I would make a small catchment pond at the top and take a pipe to the lower level, then you could fit a low head turbine at the low level where it re-joins the stream. It sounds as though you could easily manage a 12" pipe and that should give a nice steady source of power.

You could bury the pipe to hide it. This should be much better than any wheel in an open channel.

If you self build a Banki turbine is probably the best choice, but a Turgo, Pelton or even a Francis or Kaplan would work if suitably chosen. The last two could use a draft tube and gain you a few more inches of head.

Some ideas to think about.

Flux

[jlt]

hereis floating turbine that i have playing with. each blade is 4jn long and aech section 8 ft long .i am building a float to put at the head of the rapids to mount genni on.
"80%" src="http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/4031/water_t_1.jpg">


[jlt]

[Nando]

You need to determine the head and measure the length of the creek where this head is measured and the water volume and what % you can use, even though you are returning the water back to the creek.

Example: if you have 10 feet head and 1 gallon/sec (60 gallon/minute) of water you may get around 60 to 70 Watts for a daily harvesting of 1.44 to 1.68 KW/hour of energy that is good for lighting and entertainment.

I am traveling but returning after OCT 16,

I can help you with the design of your system, so keep my address and send to me a message nando37-at-comcast-dot-net

Regards

Nando

[Daddy2Cool]

   Thanks for the quick responses and ideas! I was leaning toward a wheel but I am beginning to think a pipe may be the way to go if I want to keep the final product as unobtrusive to the landscape as possible. I don't think I will need to build a holding pond of any sort as the area directly above the head is wide and deep so I should be able to begin my pipe there and funnel if necessary.

   I am still leaning towards powering an AC Delco alternator because the end result is  14.4 VDC at 60 amps I do believe and this is exactly what my requirements are. If I need to power anything AC I can always purchase an invertor.

   I realise from reading past posts here that an alternator has high RPM requirements but hopefully with some connections here in town with a machine/welding shop and an auto wrecking yard I am thinking this could be accomplished. I may be totally wrong.. but I am stubborn enough to try it anyway( I will attempt toothed belt, chain drive or direct drive gears as I know that V-Belts are the least efficient).

   While I am on the subject of alternators.. I seen a page describing the correct way to wire an AC Delco alternator for this purpose (with an on/off switch) but for the life of me I cannot find it again. Does anyone know of this page or the correct way to do this?

   I am mechanically inclined and have worked in the past in automotive electronics industry (Car stereos, alarms, cruise control etc.)and consider myself to be a fast learner. But, I am not trying to build the Hoover Dam here.. just looking to build an environmentally friendly way of maintaining a 12v power supply to my summer getaway. Your ideas are always very intriguing and challenging.. keep them coming and I will update you on my progress as well.

                           Scott

[ghurd]

The 60 amp figure seems like a lot of power for a RV.

Is this the page you are looking for?

http://theepicenter.com/tow082099.html

G-

[Parameter]

Been awhile I have'nt posted but you could use some guidance here.

The alternator, it is not that efficient cause it lose power thru the rotor coils. Still, this is acceptable as it is rugged and potent and in your case you may be able to waste a few watts here. Many hydro has been built with those.

The charge controler,tough, is not efficient and does'nt charge appropriately for a homebrew system. This controler will just reduce the load on the alternator when it's not charging. This would mean impeller overspeeding and explosion from centrifuge forces as the water speeds it up and up and up if there is no load.

Thus, you need a suitable controler so that the less you charge, the more you dump in a load. This is not the same as just switching the load on and off to charge and no charge as in windmills. This usually involve Pulse Width Modulation. This mean you switch the lenght of the Charge Time and DumpLoad times in a cyclic fashion quite high (usually around 10,000 times per sec).

You will need to find or hack a charger that sense battery voltage and vary charge time in consequence. You don't want to dump 50A in an almost full battery. The Off time must be diverted to the load in the circuit. Should be pretty easy to come up by some electronic wiz. I might design one in the near future as I will build a micro-hydro at my creek.

The other ways is to make a centrifugal vane so that water deliver get reduced as the speed get higher. So that you'll limit the speed of the impeller. This essentially is one of the biggest catches, but really worth it as hydro is full-time ON and quite powerfull. For mechanically inclinded, centrifuge van is not that hard to do. You just have to keep an eye on it.

Btw, marine deep discharge batteries are the winner as for availability and fit pretty well the need. More is better than less, especially if you have 50 amps comming your way all the time... Since you would have the capacity to keep them pretty well charged with a good hydro, you can take the peaks without hurting them if you have a few.

Think well about speed or charge/dump control before spending 200$ on an impeller. Prepackaged solutions are one venue, but homemade is so rewarding...

Well, good luck with the system.

Para

[Parameter]

Here, this link may help with the charge controler circuit:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/printable/1985_January_February/Mother_s_Microhydroelectric_Plant_Rev
isited

Para

[Daddy2Cool]

     I have read all of your comments and ideas with great interest. After reading some of the ideas suggested I looked more carefully at my proposed site and realised some of the ideas might require a lot of planning (getting a long enough section of pipe where I need it due to turns and rock restrictions, mounting the turbine in this type of rugged terrain etc).I certainly haven't given up the project by any means, but now that the end of the trailer season is approaching I think that having the winter months to plan this out may save me some valuable time in the spring.

     As I mentioned in my previous post I am entirely new to this, but determined to make use of what is available to me in an environmentally friendly way.I have been reading several posts regarding battery banks and feel that may also be incorporated in whatever plan I come up with. Although a lot of the posts on here get way too technical for me I find that if you just look for the basic info you want it is all here. I think my first attempt will use a banki type turbine as the starting point and the pipe issues I will solve in due time I hope. I have been watching posts regarding nozzles now... but I guess I had better start somewhere and that would be to get the basics built( a modified furnace "cage fan" mounted on pillow bearings mounted on..).  

    I still haven't been entirely steered away from my car alternator idea but I am starting to see why it could a problem (rpm etc). I will keep reading all of the pertinent posts and who knows.. next spring you could be reading about how thrilled I am to be able to let the kids flush the toilet and turn on a light without running out to hook the booster cables up to the car first!

    The seeds of curiousity have been planted.... stand back.

[Daddy2Cool]

Hi all,

   It has been quite some time since I originally posted the above and unfortunately some unforseen events caused my project to be shelved for a long period of time.

   I was able to 'collect' some of the items I think I will be needing and I am looking for advice and input once again. I have decided that I will be using a squirrel cage fan from a furnace to get the project started (a homebrew crossflow turbine is already in the construction stages). I will be taking the necessary measurements of the water source this weekend and will post for additional info.

   The question I have now is related to the motor I have decided to use. I found several identical treadmill motors that I can choose from (all new). Here is the info from the plate attached to them:

  manufacturer: Mag Field Electric Co. Ltd

  PM DC Motor

  Class B Insulation

  Enclosure : Open

  CW Rotation

  External Fan

  Electrical rating @ 110 vdc- FF 1.0 aom

  Input 4.0 HP

  Peak Treadmill Duty 4200rpm, 10 Amps

  I only intend on using this motor to run a few lights, a radio and perhaps an AC/DC TV/DVD combo that I have, and possibly to keep the 2 Deep Cycle Marine batteries charged. I know that the creek measurements are important to answer some of these questions but with some quick experiments that I have already performed I  think that 800 RPM would be roughly the speed available to turn this motor.

  I await your input, and thanks in advance.

                                   Scott