my otherpower design 17ft pictures

[Roger Stafford]

Hi all I finaly figured out to post pictures to my file on here but havn't figured out how to post one with a posting(story) I went to FAQ and when I clicked on details i got a old upgrading note. Anyway if you are interested you can see some of my photos in my files. Yes there have been some changes to these parts since these photos were taken.

Rogers' files are over here:

Rogers Files

Sorry, not enough time to put them in the post nor do I know which ones you wanted posted.
Here is a sample and looks good.

TW

[bzrqmy]

Nice work, I looked at all 62 pictures. How is it performing? I am just starting to plan a 17 footer.  I need to tame my 10 footer first.  Brought back some good memories as I jused a lot of that red paint on mine as well.

[Roger Stafford]

Thanks I had to make some adjustments to the offset of the gen to the yawl bearing, to get it to furl,and that worked, but I think I need to do more adjusting to get it to furl earlier. I started with 8 1/2" offset and just changed to 12 1/2" and it furls earlier but I think still not soon enough. I found out that building it was pretty easy but the fine tuning is alot harder.

[Roger Stafford]

I just looked at your files and am impressed.  I like the way you painted your blades,and the roll pins in the magnets. I would like to know where you got the watts up meter and how it's tied in. If you build the 17ft don't be dumb like me and make the mistake on the offset and the length of the 5/8 allthread for the mags and blades.  By the way where are you? It looks alot like Oklahoma where I'm from. I live in Florida now and my wind gen is in Arkansas at my daughters house. It's realy hard to not be able to be there to make all the fine tuning that it needs. Nice hearing from you and have fun.

[dlenox]

Roger,

Glad to finally see some pictures of your 17'er.  Hope that the conversation we had a while back helped you out, unfortunately there is not a lot of what I would refer to as large (16+ ft) home built wind turbines.

Still messing with mine and unfortunately winter has set in here, so it will have to wait till spring time.

I see that you are still learning with the rest of us about offset, furling and such, as I recently changed my offset from the yaw bearing such as you have as well.

I am curious about your stator as well as the rotors, as well as the air gap between the rotors.  I assume that you have also used the 1-1/2 x 3 x 3/4" magnets.  Please if you have the time post more details for the rest of us on construction, as well as performance/furling characteristics/etc.

Dan Lenox

[fabricator]

Roger and Dan, my 17 is not flying yet, but from Dans experience I have already changed my offset to 12.5 inches also, but now I wondering if it may not be a good idea to lessen the angle on the tail bracket.

[Roger Stafford]

fabricator That's what I want to do the next time I get to go to AR. Mine is furling now but not soon enough I think. Don't know for sure because I don't know the wind speed,need a anemometer.

[dlenox]

From all that I have seen about these machines is that for a 17'er that an offset of 12.5" should be sufficient.

I would be hesitant on lessening the tail mounting angle by more than a couple of degrees as it could potentially create a 'too early furling' situation. Although this could be offset by more weight on the tail vane...

My guess is that about 15-18 degree tail mounting angle should be sufficient, as long as the tail vane weight is not excessive.  Currently I have reduced my tail vane weight to about 10lbs by making an 8 layer fiberglass composite vane to replace the 30lbs previous tail vane that was constructed using 3/8" exterior plywood.

I'm unsure of the blade rotation that Roger has implemented, but am heavily leaning on the advice by DaveB on left mounting CW rotation, right mounting CCW rotation (looking from the front) as a help in keeping the machine in a furling position.  Currently my blades rotate CCW and I will be changing the yaw bearing and tail so that the turbine is mounted on the right side of the bearing.

It does look like Roger has wound the coils with two-in-hand, again unsure of the wire size, waiting on details to be posted here by Roger.

Dan Lenox

[fabricator]

Dan, that is exactly what I have in mind a lesser angle, maybe 10-12 degrees, then if you are furling too early you simply ADD weight to the tail instead of trying to make a lighter and lighter tail.

[Roger Stafford]

Sorry Dan I didn't see your post earlier. When I was out there I had some cracks and blisters on my stator. I think this was caused by air in the fiberglass, when the stator got hot the air expanded. I had the air gap at 15/16 and just changed it to 1 1/16th lost a little ,but hopefully it will run cooler till I get back. I will post some pictures to my file of the stator damage in the next few minutes, still havn't figured out how to add them to a post. Sorry to hear your stator burned. Yes I have the same mags as the design and Itried to follow the construction as per otherpower but not sure of the angles matching theirs.

[fabricator]

I'm wondering why I can't see your file? All I see id your email address.

[Roger Stafford]

fabricator if you click on my name in my post then click files you can see all the pictures. I just added stator damage pictures.

[ghurd]

Try this,

http://www.fieldlines.com/user/Roger%20Stafford

G-

[Roger Stafford]

Hi G

 Wanted to let you know what I did about the problem with the gen shuting down. First Steven had the auto shut down volts set to low (56v) I reset to 60,the reason is the inverter goes into standby when the gen is not producing enough. Then when the gen starts putting out more power,and it gets to 59.5 before the inverter comes out of standby. The dump wasn't reacting fast enough so I had to change the volts on it from 57.6 to 56(recomended by morning star rep.)It works alot better now the dump works and we hav't had any shutdowns.

[ghurd]

Excellent! about the shutdown.

Bummer about the stator.

Is there a layer of fiberglass cloth on the other side?

G-

[Roger Stafford]

Yes and I cleaned as much of the blisters off as I could and repaired with 5 minute appoxie. I'll have to make another one but not to soon I hope.

[freejuice]

Hi Roger,

 It looks like your tower is 60 feet tall, nice maybe I can graduate to a 17 footer one day.

 I'm trying to get a 60ft tower up on my spare time. Do you have an idea as to how much concrete you poured at each anchor point or the rough dimensions of each hole? Oh, how large was your tower pad?

 Thanks,

 Gavin

[dlenox]

Roger,

What inverter did you end up using?

Kinda sounds like the Xantrex XW? It has a '20 second stabilization period' before it goes into sell mode...

Dan

[Roger Stafford]

Hi Gavin

My tower is 94' tall with a 50'gin pole, 10" tubing for tower and couplings with 10" pipe for base. The base pad is around 6'by 8'and 6' deep.  I told the backhole operator I wanted it 4'by 4'  2'deep. I think we used 6 yards of concret at 4000lbs per yard, didn't want to backfill the hole because the base would sink and cause problems. The anchors was 4' by 6' and 6'deep we put 1 1/2 yards (6000lbs) in each. The same thing happened with the wench anchor as the base. It ended up about 12000lbs. This is all over kill but better too much than too little. The anchors are 1 1/2' pipe inside 2' pipe welded into a tee. I used the 4 corners of 1/2" plate from my magnet plates for tying in the cable.

[Roger Stafford]

Hi Dan

Yes it is a Xantrex 6048. I'm sorry I forgot to thank you for all your help. The wire I used for my stator was #14 double insulated 2 in hand. We still want to get your data logging softwear, but don't know when yet.

[freejuice]

Hi Roger,

  Wow, It looks like my estimate of 60 feet was a little low.

Thanks for the info! I was thinking along the lines of 4ftx 4ft x1-12 for my tower base....not too far off from your 100ft( practically)

 Still thinking of using 6"-8" ground anchors maybe two at each anchor point, or simply pouring some concrete/rebar in a porportional relationship ( my 60 footer to your 100 footer)...that would probabl work out!

 Thanks,

 Gavin

[bzrqmy]

I live in central lower Michigan.  Got the idea of the roll pins from this forum.  Did not use any resin on the magnet rotor, just epoxy to hold down, the roll pin to keep from flying away, and lots of tractor paint to seal from the elements.  The Watts up meters are great little devices for what you pay for them,  get them on e-bay for $53 to your door in the U.S.  Watts up claim to handle 50A continuous, but they have dinky leads.  The watts up meter is hooked up on the negative wire off the 3-phase rectifier, before the battery. The blades are simply 2 x 8 pine lumber.  I figured I would try this first before spending money on other species as my woodworking skills are limited.  They turned out to work really well, not sure I will change them unless I see signs of stress/erosion when I take down in the spring for maintenance.

Thanks for contributing to the forum.  You should be proud of your acomplishments.  I personally do not know any one that has ever built a DIY wind turbine besides myself.  If not for this forum, I would have never attempted it.  It's nice to have a group of like-minded "friends".

[dlenox]

Roger,

My Xantrex XW will charge the batteries (when needed) from the grid and bring the battery voltage up to 57.6v, I'm using AGM and not sure which batteries you are using.  And as you have found out your diversion controller has to be set a bit higher, and your auto-shutdown from Ghurd a little bit more.

Hopefully within 4-6 months Xantrex will finally have a new firmware load for the XW that will finally remove this '20 second stabilization period'.  I've been after Xantrex about this issue from over a year ago, I guess the holdup is that the new firmware has to get UL approved before they can officially release it.

I'm sure that you have already seen how fast the turbine can drive up the battery voltage within this time frame, and your diversion will most likely trigger before the inverter starts selling.  This is usually worst when there is little to mild winds, once the wind speed comes up it stays pretty well in sell mode, but on those days it's like watching a yoo-yoo!!

Have you seen the turbine hold a furling position yet?

What size battery bank did you also use?  Mine is 220ah and probably should be at least 300-400ah.  I hate to invest in more batteries as I look at the grid as my 'big' battery bank but the bank does not seem to be big enough when the grid goes down when the wind is really blowing. Our grid rarely goes down for anything more than a couple of minutes at a time so I really don't need a huge bank (not like off-grid users)

Dan

[Dave B]

Hi guys,

  Just curious about the grid tie arrangements for you both. Figuring it here (Western NY) it makes little to no sense at all for me to grid tie. I'm sure you both have figured the grid costs including all the taxes, delivery, etc. etc. My electric per KWH total is $.21 pretty sad when you look at the actual electric cost of $.07

  I'm sure it's fun to see a reduction in your electric bill or receive a check or how ever it works for your area. How much are you being paid back to make power for them compared to what you pay (including all taxes, delivery costs etc. total)  for their electric ?

 For me all the power I make is worth $.21 to me so I choose to charge batteries, sticking it to the grid for me is to use less of their power. I am earning 2/3 more money than to make power for the electric company. For me in this area investing in batteries is a no brainer, some day I will cut the cord for sure.   Dave B.

[fabricator]

I might be all wet on my numbers here Dave, but I believe there is at least a 20% loss when you charge batteries, as opposed to putting it in the grid, have you factored this into your numbers? But, like I said I might be FOS here.

[Dave B]

Fabricator,

  Yes, there are losses in any system but the fact remains that how ever much power I store, it is mine to use how ever and when ever I want with no money paid to the grid, ever. (for that power). This is going to be huge with this cap and trade thing on the way. My inverter I believe is 93% efficient DC to AC.

  Grid tie has it's place for some but if you are using the grid besides take the time to figure out how much power you need to make for the grid (that's what you are doing) to cover your current demand and cost that you would be paying them. I know many may not intend to or hope to cover all their electric by being grid tied but this figure will give you a realistic comparison of what your own power is worth.

  The incentives and grants etc. are attractive for grid tie and this tells me at least 2 things. A $60K grid tie system is actually worth $30K and it's a huge win - win for the grid companies. They get your power at their rate that you invested all the time and money into and they still have you under their control for grid rate hikes, taxes, delivery charges etc.

  If it works for some and they are happy (for now) then that's great. For my area there is a lot more to the math than (if I make this then I will get that). I have to admit that on the surface grid tie can look like a winner.

 What's your actual payback time on a grid tied system ? The grid companies will decide that for you as long as you remain plugged in.

 Just some opinions I needed to air out, cabin fever is setting in with our first snow storm settling in the past few days.  Dave B.  

 

[Timeless Turbines]

Everyone

I am ok with swapping out my batteries every couple of years, as a trade off to buying them.

I have 30 100lb 12 volt deep cycle batteries that I got for free from my Batteries Plus rep. There used from a corporate i.t. room. Batteries Plus changed out there batteries and gave me the old ones. The corp. changes them out every three years, the next month Batteries Plus offered me 80 hospital bed batteries ( two years old ) but I was not ready for them yet. The batteries I got are the highest quality that that company made , no recycled lead.

Batteries Plus does not sell used batteries, they were happy to help.

I called for my final inspection for tomarrow on my first wind turbine, will be building a 17 footer also.

For me grid tie is a great storage system, Michigan has 12 month net metering, no money eather way. use it in 12 months or loose it.

I have a La Crosse Tecnology wireless weather station I paid $100.00 for it on ebay, it wil transmit 300 feet. Its been working a couple months and I like it a lot, it will download to a pc with 750 sets of data.

I am a electrican and I think everyone should have two good T.V.S.S. on there electrical systems. Transiant Voltage Surge Supperssion. I found a good one that is easy to install behind your power meter. $145.00 Leviton Surg Arrester Cat. 50240-msa. 50540 50208  

[Timeless Turbines]

Everyone

I am ok with swapping out my batteries every couple of years, as a trade off to buying them.

I have 30 100lb 12 volt deep cycle batteries that I got for free from my Batteries Plus rep. There used from a corporate i.t. room. Batteries Plus changed out there batteries and gave me the old ones. The corp. changes them out every three years, the next month Batteries Plus offered me 80 hospital bed batteries ( two years old ) but I was not ready for them yet. The batteries I got are the highest quality that that company made , no recycled lead.

Batteries Plus does not sell used batteries, they were happy to help.

I called for my final inspection for tomarrow on my first wind turbine, will be building a 17 footer also.

For me grid tie is a great storage system, Michigan has 12 month net metering, no money eather way. use it in 12 months or loose it.

I have a La Crosse Tecnology wireless weather station I paid $100.00 for it on ebay, it wil transmit 300 feet. Its been working a couple months and I like it a lot, it will download to a pc with 750 sets of data.

I am a electrican and I think everyone should have two good T.V.S.S. on there electrical systems. Transiant Voltage Surge Supperssion. I found a good one that is easy to install behind your power meter. $145.00 Leviton Surg Arrester Cat. 50240-msa. 50540 50208  

[Boss]

Wow, beautiful system, ten inch tube! 94 feet tall! that is amazing! What part of the world is that? Thanks for sharing.

[dlenox]

Dave,

Looks like you baited me: hopefully not hijacking this thread...  but my $.02

You are pretty right, base cost for power here is about $.10 per kwh.  And you don't receive any money from the power company, more like a debit card.  You put power in and pull it out later.

Yes the tax credits are helping to offset the costs, and with them I expect about a 7yr payback.  But that depends on replacing stators/updates/maintenance.....

For me it's a 'feel good' project (my solar panels too) and it may sound corney but I am trying to reduce my carbon footprint.  If more people did it then it could help curb global warming that has been contributed to by man.

It's also a fun and learning project, I know far more about renewable energy now than I did 3 yrs ago. And that makes me more informed about government and large corporate decisions about renewable energy.

I have also on the board for a non-profit 'Friends of the Cheat River' (http:www.cheat.org) and we have talked with wind turbine companies about them wanting to put wind turbines into our part of WV.  Which has made me more aware of bat strikes here with wind turbines.

So all in all I am a more informed and educated consumer.

Dan Lenox

[dlenox]

TT,

I also have a La Crosse anemometer, only problem is batteries seem to only last a few months.  I would recommend the small solar panel to power it.

Dan

[Roger Stafford]

Hi Dan

 I'm useing 6v golfcart batt. and 220ah. No I hav'nt seen the gen in full furl yet. I didn't get to watch it very long, but did see it starting to furl at 30mph to 35mph(estimated)Thats why I think I need to do more fine tuning. I think I have the same angle as the book on my tail pivot, and I angled the tail up as in the book,and(2008 design on their web site). The tail vain runs up toward the top of the blade sweep. I think it would help if it ran more in the middle. Thats what I'll change next by reducing the angle on the tail itself. The grid there was down for 3 weeks last winter (ice storm) and we need more batt bank but Steven don't want to spend the money. (they need a new car)They can recharge with a gas gen to get by.

[Roger Stafford]

Hi Dave

I look at the grid as a big dump load/batt bank.I too have a batt bank. There are lots of times when I make more power than I'm useing. In Arkansas they use Net metering. The meter shows how much they deliver and how much they receive form my system. If I make more than I use in a year then I loose it, but the grid is a co-op and this way I help others because they get rebates at the end of the year. Also my energy is greener than theirs. I spent around $20'000 on my system and the only extra costs was the inverter with the UL listing (required to tie to the grid) and a little extra wire. I was already tied to the grid when I started this project so it just made sense to be grid tied instead of dumping excess power. I assume you are dumping your excess, because of the extra expense to get the grid ran to your house. I'm going to add more to my system later to supply all my power, but I'll stay tied to the grid for my benifit.