Author Topic: Arctic coastal Alaska is very windy (Read 4399 times)

Miztiki · « **on:** January 26, 2007, 11:33:59 PM »

New member here. I signed up the other day as I'm just beginning to learn about alternative energy. The next day my husband came home with some major news. He was given the possibility of working and living in extreme northern Alaska on the coast of the Beaufort Sea (Arctic Ocean) for a few years. Brr.

I have to do my research and share it with him so that we can make a decision.

I did a quick google search and learned that the area is a level 7 (or whatever), meaning that it has the best winds for generating electricity on a scale from 1-7.

I checked the Weather Underground archives for wind speeds in the area and wow, it's windy. Here's January 2006 as a starting point but you can click on any month for data:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/PABA/2006/1/26/MonthlyHistory.html#calendar

Then I did a search for wind power already being implimented in that area. I didn't find anything but on the other hand, it's extremely remote, so there's not much going on.

I was wondering if you might have any idea if wind power would work there? I know basically nothing about that part of Alaska and just as much about wind power. I don't know if the -75 degree (max winter lows) to +75 degree (max winter highs) temps would make it impossible, or if any other factors would make it unrealistic (aside from the logistics of getting it there). There's very little precipitation, only 5"/yr (20" snow).

If it's not possible then I won't waste my time researching it. If it is possible then please let me know and I will begin researching (along with so many other things!). I tried to find info but everything I read talked about big wind turbines that sweep a large area and slow wind speeds. This apparently would not be the case in this location.

Thank you very, very much in advance for your help!

Miz

vawtman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2007, 05:28:51 PM »

A igloo with a turbine spinning above would be fun.Not sure how tough your hubby is though.

Now thats my type of retirement home has long has fishing is nearby.

Just kidding and sounds like fun.Keep searching can be done.

luckeydog · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2007, 06:03:29 PM »

the answer to your question is yes.

the advantages if high wind areas are you don't need as big of wind turbine to do the job. so your cost is less per watt. there are wind turbines in the antarctic that have been spinning for many years. i would recommend a variable pitch turbine though.

Miztiki · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2007, 06:14:52 PM »

I don't think I would live in an igloo, though a sod house would not be out of the question. ;-)

I read about high winds with regular turbines and how they can spin too fast and damage them. In the 100 mph winds, can you just picture me flying through the air with the propeller going at warp speed!

Seriously though, I hope someone is able to help me out a bit. Like I said, I haven't had the chance to learn much of anything yet about wind power. In my mind I picture having a small vertical turbine, maybe 5ft tall and wide, and with those coastal winds I'd be able to generate enough electricity to run grow lights so that I can grow vegetables inside, not to mention produce lots of heat, and all the other things that need electricity.

How far off the mark am I? I'm sure I must be way off or it seems that everyone in that area would harness the wind. That wind data sure does make me want to learn how feasible it would be to have a wind turbine though.

For the last several hours I've been pouring through the results of a google search using the terms "wind" and "windy" and various locations where we might be. I've come across nothing about using wind as power but that might be because I'm coming across a million other items of interest. Wow, it's cold there but wow, it's amazingly beautiful. If I can stay warm and well fed then I can overlook subzero temps.

And the northern lights... Wow.

thirteen · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2007, 07:14:36 PM »

you'll need some lights for your growing I was given this in remote living under lights as a begining it might help you www.plantlightinghydroponics.com / grow-bulbs-fluorescent-c-73htm If this is wrong try the lighting section I may have left something out

Miztiki · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2007, 07:50:21 PM »

It's really nice to know that wind power is a feasible option. Alaska is about the last place we have left that hasn't been impacted by people too much, especially in the region we might be headed. It's part of the wildlife refuge too, so I'd like to have as little impact on the environment as possible.

This is so exciting! The oil rep approached him the first time but I wouldn't allow myself to get too excited. Then he approached him a second time a week later (the other day) and that means I can get excited now. EEK! :-D

Thank you guys. Any idea how I could build my own using native materials? Maybe whale ribs with caribou hide stretched between them for the sails... Oh, this is exciting! I've been wanting to live in Alaska for a long time. I've had this silly grin on my face for two days now. :-)

ghurd · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2007, 10:11:12 PM »

"Spin too fast and damage them"

Search "furl". The windmill turns itself out of the wind.

Still, 100MPH is dang fast.

G-

thirteen · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2007, 08:33:28 AM »

I wish I was there. please take time to not just look at the whole picture but at the way a small child would look at things. Many of us that are adults fail to see things as they are. In stead of standing and looking at things get back down to a childs hieght and see things as in amasment they do. For there is so much we miss. It is like watching a fire with dancing flames then turn away and look back and all have changed. Don't miss the changes of the little things that will surround you.

Be sure and take seeds with you, things up there are not just go to the store and get it. You might check and see if there is any restrictions on plants or seeds brought into the state. They should have done that with the good old USA but noone thought of that years ago.

harrie · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:37:40 AM »

Hi Miztiki, Yes, the wind usually only blows from the west and the east, usually about three days from each direction before it turns to the other. I spent 5 years on the artic coast From Barrow all the way to Kaktovik, living and working with the Eskimos. I would doubt you would ever see more than one day that would even hit 60 degrees above zero in the dead of summer, unless you are a long way inland. I have saw wind in excess of 100 miles an hour, but that wont happen too often. It is usually between 10 and 40. One thing about it, you dont need concrete to anchor the tower, all you have to do is drill a hole in the perma frost, and fill it with sand and water, and it will never thaw out again. There is only a 2 foot active layer of ground that thaws and freezes. Anyway, bring alot of warm clothes and something to do when it is dark 24 hours a day for 2 solid months. Good luck.

harrie · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:45:49 AM »

Oh ya, I need to add that if its oil work, I would be supprised if you would beable to live in the oil feilds, both my sons work for BP at prudo Bay, and they are on a 2 week on and 2 week off sedule, and there familys live in the lower 48, and fly back and forth. The money is good tho.

Miztiki · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2007, 12:32:14 PM »

After my last post I realized that I shouldn't let myself get too excited yet. It will be at least two weeks before we know anything. I don't want to get my hopes up for nothing so I'm going to try my best to forget the whole thing for now, until I know more.

If it turns out that we are able to go then I'd love to be able to talk to you Harrie. My email is Miztiki at hotmail dot com.

I'll go back to reading the old posts here and learning what I can. I do have a quick question. Why are almost all of the wind turbines horizontal instead of vertical?

Miz

vawtman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2007, 01:35:43 PM »

Hello again Miz

Vertical turbines are for people that just plain dont get it.Thought i would bring it up before Ron.

Its impossible to make them work check Sandia Labs website i guess

Your whale bone and carribou hide sav would be fun though.

Miztiki · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2007, 03:56:41 PM »

I looked up the Lab you mentioned and did some other searching. I guess I don't get it. I can see how a vertical turbine would not be the best choice for other environments, but for wide, open spaces with consistently high wind speeds? Would you care to explain why they wouldn't work well? I thought the whole point was to make them spin so that the magnets and coils can spin. That sounds pretty simple to me but apparently it's not? I'm trying to learn. Even some decent keywords while doing searches would help. Thanks.

RP · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2007, 04:04:03 PM »

He said with a smirk...

Most of us have to live with 10-12 mph winds and the Horizontal axis mills seem to be better suited to extracting power with less trouble in those conditions.

Sandia Labs did some extensive studies of Vertical mills and the data is quite useful. In your case in Alaska with those enourmous winds, a VAWT might do quite well for you. Since the energy in the wind goes up as the cube of wind speed, you don't need to work nearly as hard for efficiency to get significant power out.

vawtman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2007, 07:01:59 PM »

Miz am i reading you wrong are you sure you searched the right Lab?Hawt wide open need guidance. Vawt swirly no guidance needed.

When you get checked in up there give a reply back.

finnsawyer · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2007, 09:03:05 AM »

M. Jacobs claimed that his windmills could withstand 100 Mph winds. They were HAWTs made circa 1930-40, I believe. They used a centrifugal mechanism to change the pitch of the blades. Mechanically, it seems they were quite good. Electrically they would probably be considered obsolete today. You might chase them down. See what you find.

Miztiki · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2007, 03:44:14 PM »

I just read that arctic air is typically more dense than air elsewhere, apparently due to the extremely cold temperatures. Would this work for or against wind power? I'm guessing for?

I appreciate your help with understanding all of this.

Miztiki · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2007, 04:57:20 PM »

I just found my answer, and it didn't take a week of searching to find it this time. I must be catching on. :-)

Miztiki · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2007, 05:17:01 PM »

I still have a question. This is from a Texas source:

"Air temperature is also an important

factor in wind power generation. Cold

air is more dense than hot air. Thus,

wind turbines are able to generate

about 5% more power at any given

wind speed in the winter than they are

during the hot days of summer."

They are talking about Texas air and temps. I'm talking arctic temps. Is the air density a major or minor factor in this case? For instance, would year round dense, arctic air bring it up to 6% more power, or more like 25%? Thanks in advance.

Nando · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2007, 05:46:59 PM »

Miztiki:

The air density enters in a formula to calculate the available power hotter or higher in altitude makes the air lighted, cold and lower altitude makes the air heavier.

% wise is a variable not too great for your "site", I do not recall the range nor I have the time to play with the formula.

Nando

dinges · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2007, 06:45:18 PM »

You will find what you are looking for here:

http://www.awea.org/faq/windpower.html

richhagen · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2007, 05:39:22 PM »

In a 40Mph wind it doesn't have to be too efficient or too big to make useful power. Rich

richhagen · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2007, 05:51:37 PM »

A wind turbine works by converting kinetic energy from the air into kinetic energy in the rotor, which is of course converted to electrical energy in the alternator. The kinetic energy in the air is equal to one half of the mass times the square of the velocity of the air. A horizontal axis wind turbine sweeps an area that is equal to the value pi (ratio of diameter of circle to circumfrence) multiplied by the square of the blade length. The volume of air in a given amount of time that it can collect energy from is equal to the windspeed multiplied by this swept area. Since the air is denser when it is colder, there is more kinetic energy in this volume of air than when the air is warmer. This applies even in Alaska :-)

Cold, ice, and high wind speeds would be concerns for a turbine at your location, but I would think that given the high average wind speeds that you cite, wind power would have pretty good potential in the region. You would have to see where your plot of land is situated to figure out if it will work for you specifically. Rich

jmk · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2007, 08:02:37 AM »

When you get up there and check out the living environment you may change your mind about fiddling around with a home made system. There's a lot to a first time set up. You would need it to be summer to fine tune a system I would think. I'm just thinking about fingers and toes getting cold. The tower will have to go up and down a phew times before everything is right unless you get a vawt to work. A vawt would be a lot easier to work on. If it were me and I needed to depend on something in that environment I would start with a proven plan or a commercial system. Then try to add what ever to it. I wonder how hard supplies are going to be to find to make something. I don't think bones and hides will survive the wind speeds. Just my two cents worth.

Miztiki · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2007, 10:19:14 PM »

I was just joking about the bones and hides! It went with the whole igloo-flying-through-the-air scenario.

I would want regular electricity, heat, and all that stuff in place first. If wind power ends up being a potentially significant source of power then I'd give it a try and see what happens. If it (and solar) was enough to handle all of my power needs then that would be awesome. A bit less would be good too. Less than that and why bother?

I would not want to put a hawt up in that area. In fact there's probably laws against it (bird danger and all) since it's in part of ANWR. If a small vawt wouldn't do the job then I'd just stick with conventional means of power. The cost and hassle of logistics wouldn't be worth it otherwise.

Everything - food, clothing, fuel, people- all has to be flown in, or barged in when the sea thaws out. I've been wanting to move to Alaska for a long time and some day we will, maybe soon if he gets this job. I'd love to experience the arctic environment for a few years and if the winds there could power the heater well enough for me to stay toasty then I'm up for an adventure!

jmk · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2007, 06:13:13 PM »

Sounds like you're going to have a lot to look forward to. Alaska is so beautiful! I just have a phobia with bears. I bet you'll get to see some polar bears. I bet a vawt would work great, and more than one would be easy too. I would like the fact that you wouldn't need a tower. The bird strikes are a myth. Birds don't really fly into the blades. people who are against wind turbines made that up. You have a better chance of birds flying into your windows. Have fun and let us know how it goes. Will you be able to have internet up there? If you do I would be interested in how it all works out. You should look at the vawts that were built and posted to this site. Look at Ed's stuff from the link at the wind section of otherpower. http://www.windstuffnow.com/

Miztiki · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2007, 01:19:39 AM »

I sure hope I have internet up there. I learn so much on this thing. Thanks for that link. I've been looking it over and it's got alot of stuff in there for me to learn. I have alot of questions too.

I didn't know that about birds. The bears intimidate me too but Alaskans would probably be worried about rattlesnakes and killer bees if they were faced with moving to Texas so I figure it won't be so scary when the time comes. That's the hope anyway!

Miz

ghurd · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2007, 07:54:35 AM »

Freedom Arms .454 Casull is popular in the region.

Just a thought. ;-)

G-

TomW · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:32:59 PM »

G;

Yeah that would give any intimidators pause. The muzzle flare could scorch the hide off and the recoil would shift her enough that any attack would miss.

Haha just kidding. I would not be outdoors in bear country without my magnum on my hip, or someone much slower on the run than myself.

Cheers.

TomW

ghurd · « **Reply #29 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:18:21 PM »

I was half serious. The .454 enjoys huge sales up there, but the .480 Rugers are gaining due to 80% of the energy and a LOT more tame to handle.

I don't at all care for a 44 mag with a triplex load getting somewhat near a .454! Sinus' actually hurt for a day or 2 after a couple rounds.

Miz, I doubt they dump you out there too far!

G-

Miztiki · « **Reply #30 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:36:29 PM »

I weigh all of 100 pounds. If I shot a gun like that then I would fly backwards all the way to Anchorage. :-P

I don't have a problem shooting an animal but an understanding of bear behavior, a couple well trained bear-smart dogs, and an electric fence should keep me safe. If not then I've always wondered what the inside of a polar bear looks like...

RP · « **Reply #31 on:** February 05, 2007, 08:28:36 PM »

Well I figure it's too dark to read in there anyway but it's probably warm. :-)

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Author Topic: Arctic coastal Alaska is very windy (Read 4399 times)