Newbie setting up HF solar kit - need baby sitter

[28]

We just built a 2 car garage connected to the ally behind our house.  There is no electric hooked up and the cost is 1200 bucks to run electric to the garage.

The garage does have a 3/4 hp 5 amp garage door opener.  I want to power this opener with solar.  I won't be using power in the garage for anything else aside from low wattage lights.   The garage is for car storage only.  No power tools, no saws, etc.

Right now I am looking at the 45 watt harbor freight system.  From what I have read on this board the controller is a POS.  I figure I would try the controller.  I sell used auto parts for a living so I do have a lot of car batteries that I can use for the system.  Would this system power my garage door opener?  I would use the car batteries at first and then go for a deep cycle battery.

I have a 1000 watter inverter that I hooked up to a 12v car battery and it powered the garage door opener. I used the opener up and down about 10 times.   The problem with the inverter is that once turned on it has a fan that runs constantly.  Is there any inverter that does not run constantly?  I am worried about it eating up all my power.

My plan is to mount the HF panels on the roof facing south, mount the battery on a shelf in the garage with the controller and inverter.  Run power cord to the garage door opener and thats it. Anything else I am going to need?  Am I missing something?

[kurt]

find the inverter with the absolute lowest idle draw you can find because that is gonna a big part of your draw in that system. for the garage door opener you are talking 1-2 watts 24/7 for the receiver for the remote and 600 watts for 1 minute 4-6x a day maybe that is 108 watt hours total a day you figure you mite get 30 watts for 6 hours out of those panels on a good day that makes 180 watt hours that don't leave you with very much for inverter idle draw you mite wanna go with 2 of those kits or step up to a real 100 to 120w panel that will last more than a few years.

[hamitduk]

Costco 60w 12Vdc $320, cheaper and more watts, 175 inverter and a small unit to play with.

WWW.COSTCO.COM

[TheCasualTraveler]

     How often will you be opening and closing the door? Seems a bit Rube Goldberg just to open a door. If you only open and close it twice a day, going in and out then it doesn't make sense to leave the inverter running all day and night. Must you activate the door via a remote? Unless the door is used often I would consider a hidden switch on the outside of the building to power up the inverter and then hit the button to open the door. That would leave you plenty of juice for 12 volt low amp lighting in the garage.

     Awhile back someone (sorry I don't remember who) did a story on a wireless switch to turn an inverter off and on when needed. Maybe that could help. Better yet, brush up on simple wiring and run the AC line out to the garage yourself or find a friend in the business. My guess is most of that $1200 dollars will go toward digging the ditch for the wire. Most folks here will tell you when RE is the best solution and when the grid just makes more sense. Not to be a wet blanket but that's my take.

[28]

I know connecting power to the garage is the easiest and best option.  I could probably even do it for less than $600. I just want to experiment with solar and this seems like a good chance.  If I am going to do it I can't have a switch outside to turn it on/off.  Needs to be on all the time.

The costco unit, is the controller pretty good? Better than harbor freight?  There is a n HF 20 minutes from my house and a costco is 2 hours away.

[ghurd]

Two remotes.  One for the inverter, one for the opener?

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/4/11/5115/12104

G-

[28]

that is a neat idea.

has anyone used this kit?

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=366877

I have a samsclub within 20 minutes

There are no specific inverters that are popular with solar users?

[Bruce S]

The COSCO seems to be a nice unit, but the panels are the same type from HF.

It does however include a charge controller instead of the one HF has, so may end up being better deal.

Visited them close to house, didn't have any in stock, told online purchase only in our area, they also couldn't explain the ad that says 7amp charge controller then the list says 4amp :-) Nice customer service people though.

15Watters, If going the route of panels, then the HF would be a better route.

You get 45watts plus a couple 12Vdc CFLs to light the garage, espically if you're going the what-you-have-on-hand way.

The "fun" I have had with the "controller" from HF is that neither to original nor the newer one with the voltage display, are real controllers. More like PDUs (power distribution units) , when the sun goes away their controller doesn't stop the useage , but merely keeps running.

Best would be to get nice single panel of very good to best quality panel either online or RE center close to home, it'll cost a little bit more in the beginning but pay for itself if you decide to expand. get good charge controller too.

28: How far is the closest outside plug from house to garage? Could be an outside rated 10 - 12Ga rated extension cord would be better choice 50 feet would be okay but max.

Do it yourself, ditch to bury AC addon would save a bunch of that $1200.00.

just  a thought

Bruce S

[ghurd]

Those are about like the HF kits.

There are a few versions on ebay.  Look for 45W, 60W and 15W.

I'd get the HF kit over any of those, if it was me.  At least if it fails you know who to talk to.

I like Statpower, Vector and Tripp Lite inverters for the small stuff.

Small stuff usually comes down to a name brand at a low price.

Flea Market brands should be avoided.

[Bruce S]

Reads just like the costco unit only more money :-) and less extra stuff.

 I have 2 Sam's near me and haven't seen these at either one yet.

Most of the inverters I use are for specific loads, I size mine to be about 85% of the total continous load rating, this give me comfort room and the unit doesn't waste too much power.

I haven't yet built the remote mentioned but is on a to-do list.

Cheers

Bruce S

[hamitduk]

The Costco unit controller is a Sunforce 7ap Controller, I have two of them and the inverter was a 200W not a 175W. The bolts were of questionable quality, but the rest looked good.  The best part is that Costco doubles the warranty all there products. Cool huh!

[ghurd]

Not sure if most people would want a controller with 1.2V hysteresis, but at least it is a controller.

The HF kit is still cheaper because it is on sale as often as not.

G-

[28]

I picked up the 45 watt HF kit today. The controller seems to be functioning, but as you sait it is not really a controller?  What would the benefits of a nice controller be?  I am guessing I can pick a nice one up for 50 bucks?

I am using a 1000 watter inverter, but we tested the wattage used on the garage door and it is 300 watts.  So should I switch to a 400 or 500 watt inverter? Would that suck less juice out of my system since the inverter is running all the time? Any inverters in particular that are popular?

Right now I am using an old car battery, but I think it is on its last leg. I plan on picking up a wal-mart deep cycle.  

I could run a power cord to the garage, but I am interested to see if I can use the garage as solar only.  Just for kicks if anything.

[TheCasualTraveler]

     Didn't  you say you had lots of car batteries? Why buy a deep cycle till you need it? If you want to learn RE this is a good chance to learn the battery part. Read up all you can stand about battery care on this site. Get a good hydrometer and start checking those batteries. See which ones hold up best and get two or three that test close and make a bank. Continue to monitor them and keep track of your results.  Those old car batteries are all you need for now and you can learn a lot from them so that when you really need more storage and get the good deep cycles they will get the expert care they need. Battery care in a serious RE setup is extremely important. Use those old ones as guinea pigs to learn using a hydrometer, equalizing, doing a load test, comparing voltages etc. You may find you don't need a new battery for a long time. Sometimes a battery that appears no good can be equalized, added to a bank and after weeks of proper charging and care give a fair amount of power for the beginner's setup.

     As for the controller, 3 words. Ghurds dump controller.

[Bruce S]

Correct on the controller.

The one you pick will be a decission you make, if this is the largest this one will be , thne the one I started with (ala Ghurd) was the morningstar ss-4, hanldes the HF panels with ease, the larger sets that I currently have as me looking at the bigger ss-6.

SS-4 around 30USD SS-6 about double that.

The nice part of the controller is many, but moslty so that you don't have to worry about remembering the turn off the PDU and wake up in the morning with low batteries, plus they help regulate the incoming power to charge the batteries.

If you truly want to make the HF PDU unit work, then those now famous 3 words will go a long way in helping :-) but set it up as an LVD.

BTW: I have no less than 4 of these in operation , plus units setup for neighbors and still no problems not caused by operator.

One other thing you need to consider.

Battereis, becareful that you don't put more batteries on the charging side that the PVs can handle charging.

Meaning: the panels at best will put out 45 watts/per hour of "best sunlight" more like 1/2 at best. as the Northen Hemisphere comes into winter, the amount of light could be a lot less, so the amount of time needed to recharge your battery bank will lessen. So you'll need to balalnce the battery bank size with your ability to recharge the bank with the PV setup.

A lot to digest I know, but once you get it, it stays with you.

Have Fun too!

Bruce S

[28]

Hey, thanks for all the help.   This is fairly difficult for me because I don't have very much knowledge in the area.   I want it to work, but if it doesn't I at least have a cool backup for power outages.

You said you have four of these in operation, is that four morningstars of four harbor freight units?

I still have the panels sitting in my yard so I am going to attempt to mount them on my south facing garage roof.  I think I am going to beef up the HF stand with some extra hardware and then get four small brackets and screw it to the roof.

any ideas on the mount?

[Bruce S]

Actually I have 2 sets of the HF panels, one ss-4 and 4 of the Ghurd dump controllers at home plus anther 4 out in the field as it were ( at neighbor's homes).

Couple things on the stand, if you have ANY old angle iron and are handy with power stuff , you'll be better of in the long run building a stand for these. This one is okay, but if a strong winter wind comes along; it'll take your panels for a ride:-(.

If they are going to be on your roof and its pretty open, be sure a do a lightning rod grounding of the mount and such. Murphy loves to visit without warning:-/

I don't like letting stuff I purchase lay around so I, got into my HF older controller and tapped it for dump control.

Since I use NiCds, I set my dump control for it's voltage ala Ghurd's dump controllers.

Cheers

Bruce S

[mixerman]

I found this about mounting HF panels, Im collecting materials to put something permanent together myself.

http://2manytoyz.com/solarpanels.html

I would also like to add support across the center using the slot privided in the panels. Information about doing this is found in the "this old shack" video, episode 1 2008.

http://www.northernmichigansolar.com/thisoldshack.htm

I also have the Ghurd controller to do the baby sitting of the batterys.

Denny