Author Topic: hardwood blades?  (Read 804 times)

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aich

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hardwood blades?
« on: January 15, 2009, 08:16:51 PM »
Hi all!

I'm new to this site and have been reading a few pages of posts in the last week waiting for my copy of Hugh's windmill plans. WOW! I must say there are a lot of smart folks on this site.  I read in hugh's book that it's best to use softwood for the blades as it is lighter, not causing as much gyroscopic force. Can anyone tell me what this force can affect?  I assume it may throw off the furling ability, but can it be corrected by tail size trial and error?  The reason I ask is that a few red oak trees were blown down a couple years ago and I built a sawmill to slice them up into lumber.  It would be nice to use the wood from my lot as it has more value as a green alternative product.  I'll be building a home off the grid so it would be nice to see a turbine spinning away as I do the work on the house! lol. sorry about the long winded rant.  I look forward to learning and hopefully have something to contribute to this forum.


 Have a good one

Aich

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 08:16:51 PM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: hardwood blades?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 03:20:49 PM »
There are many forces on a windmill and some of the heaviest hardwoods may be best avoided but some are perfectly acceptable.


There is the centrifugal force tending to stress the blade roots under tension and heavy blades will have a larger force. This is counteracted to some extent by the fact that the hardwoods may have more tensile strength.


The gyroscopic force is one where there is a force at right angles when the machine yaws or changes direction. If there is no yaw then there is no force. if you have servo yaw or a fantail that steers the thing slowly this is no issue. For a normal tail steered thing then rapid changes in direction cause significant forces trying to tip the machine back or forward. If the spindle and bearings are inadequate there may be some issue from this, but normally the only issue is that the bottom blade tip gets thrust back during violent yaw in one direction ( forward in the other). if the blade strikes the tower then you have a problem. I haven't met a case of blade snap from this issue unless it actually strikes something.The gyroscopic force will also stress the yaw pivot and the tower, but if they are adequately constructed then this is a non issue.


Decent strong straight grained hardwoods are perfectly ok, ash should be excellent. I used maple once and it was fine but such a pain to work with that I wouldn't use it again.. strength to weight is more important than weight alone ( but I wouldn't use very heavy timbers). There are many varieties of oak and I don't know enough to advise but some may be suitable.


Apart from the risk of tower strike I don't think gyroscopic forces have much effect on furling apart from a slight slowing from increased frictional loading on crude pipe on pipe bearings. Tail size and weight does very much affect furling but it will not matter much on the material used for the prop.


The main factors for furling are alternator offset , tsr and type of blade profile and the method of alternator loading. I think many machines don't furl at all and rely on stall limiting and if they ever get away from stall then the furl may be at far too high a wind speed to offer any protection. There is a seeking force holding the prop into the wind and if that dominates it will go head on into the wind and the tail will be helpless to stop it.


flux

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 03:20:49 PM by Flux »

aich

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Re: hardwood blades?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 03:46:47 PM »
Thanks alot Flux I appreciate your in-depth answer. There is plenty of info for me to learn here as I've just starting to build.  I think I'll give the oak boards a try because they are knot free and straight grained AND the price is right!  As far as the strength of my structure, I tend to go overboard when designing things anyway,so there should be no probs there.  The only issue I might have is getting the excess weight in the air when finished lol.


Thanks again

Aich

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 03:46:47 PM by aich »

luv2weld

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Re: hardwood blades?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 09:04:27 AM »
Welcome to the forum.

You now have a disease you cannot get rid of. But most of us think

it is a good sickness.


Red oak!!! I'm jealous!!!!


It sounds like you are doing the same thing I did. I built a 10 foot

generator from Hugh's plans. It is charging the battery bank for an off grid

home. The home was built from trees that we cut and milled on a sawmill

that I built. We are 9600 feet up in central Colorado. Building a house by

yourself is truly a labor of love.


If I can help with advice or encouragement, just ask.


Good luck!!


Ralph

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 09:04:27 AM by luv2weld »
The best way to "kill time" is to work it to death!

aich

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Re: hardwood blades?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 05:49:44 PM »
Thanks for your input Ralph. I definately got the bug!! I'm in central Ontario and I got 100 acres of mostly hardwood.  I hate to even cut trees to burn let alone slice up for projects, but ya gotta do what's necessary sometimes. as of now I just cut and burn deadfall (sometimes tuff to stay ahead of that even). I only have small cabin as yet, but wife has drawn up plans for a home in the next few years.  I just hope we don't run outta time (mid 50's lol)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 05:49:44 PM by aich »