Author Topic: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?  (Read 14589 times)

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MGolden

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using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« on: February 04, 2009, 04:47:01 PM »
I am looking to charge a 48v battery bank with an engine. I cant find a 48v alternator with an internal regulator (or external for that matter) that doesnt cost over $2000. I was thinking of using two 24 volt alternators connected as such:


THe Mountning system for the alternators would be of some sort of plastic/ electric insulator so that there is no common ground between them. A ground wire would be run from each body/housing of to the alternator the appropriate battery pair. The charge wire for each alternator would be hooked to the appropriate battery pair positive.


Can someone tell me why this wont work? This is for a small electric vehicle i made and when i cant get enough wind to charge it, or i want to run it a long time (hybrid) my only option is to run it via an engine driven charger.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 04:47:01 PM by (unknown) »

electrak

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Re: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 10:31:25 AM »
An other idea, try and find an old millity ( 24 volt positve ground ) alternator
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 10:31:25 AM by electrak »

electronbaby

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Re: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 11:24:52 AM »
Why not use a single 48-110v alternator, rectify to DC, and feed an MPPT charge controller?


This might give you less headaches. Might not be the cheapest, but when you understand the principal, you could build something else similar....Much easier than isolating two 24v alternators, or worrying about syncing them.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 11:24:52 AM by electronbaby »
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oztules

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Re: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 12:03:24 PM »
Yes it will work.


Luckily my Mill is big enough to easily recharge my EV, ( http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FORUM1/forum_posts.asp?TID=1429&PN=1  ) so I haven't had to consider this as yet.


If I was to use alternators from a car, then I would just build a new regulator to go in an existing beefy truck alternator or similar... such as this one I did here ( http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/6/10/13381/2616 ). I didn't have a camera back then. But the regulator is only about 1"square and can be modified to any voltage, for any alternator that uses slip rings.


Do you have any pics of your project car.... it's gotta be better than mine, but it gets used every day for a few hours.


...........oztules

« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 12:03:24 PM by oztules »
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MGolden

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Re: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 07:46:52 AM »
The reason i went down this route with the two alternatos is simply cost. I can buy two small 24v alternators with internal regulators for around $500. Plus they are available at any HD truck parts store.


  I looked at going down the mppt route and was discouraged with the cost of the controller to deliver the power i needed.


 I am confused about the sync comment? What does this mean?


 Also, I searched for adjustable regulator without much luck, any chance you have more info on this?


 Thanks for the feedback,


  Matt

« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 07:46:52 AM by MGolden »

oztules

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Re: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 11:17:31 AM »
Mppt will be of little value to this exercise.


Syncing is only of importance if you wish to couple the ac lines for some unimaginable reason. Independently charging both banks does not require this kind of setup.


An adjustable regulator can be simply a rheostat (potentiometer) to control the power driving the rotor coils current. An alternator is a very simple device, dressed up by auto-electricians to look complicated. They are not.


They are simply a wound 3ph stator, with a single coil developing the magnetic field in the claws, going to a 3ph diode bridge to go from AC to DC....it really is that simple.


Next we can have internal or external voltage regulators, which sense the battery voltage, and supply the rotor with appropriate current to give a flux which when cutting the field coils will give a proportionate charge to the battery. As the battery gets near floating voltage, the rotor is given less current by the regulator, and magnetic flux drops.... and so charge rate drops.


At float voltage, it provides just enough rotor magnetism to allow the stator to develop just enough power to run the car/truck, but not enough to have excess to overcharge the battery.


It is a dynamic feedback system of supply and demand. The regulator simply controls the traffic.


Sometimes (mostly now days) they put the regulator into the alternator... thats where the above story arose. As you can see it is simple stuff to make your own. I don't have the schematic for it anymore, but the PCB file is still there I see. You will need to download protel autotrax from somewhere to use it ....it is free and less than 500k. It's a great little PCB program.


From that you can just change the zener from memory, and that will give you a different animal.


Remember, it is the turns per volt that dictate the alternators output. A 12v one can put out high voltage if you drive the rotor hard (more volts/turn) and spin it up faster.(more turns per minute).


So a 12v one driving 48v direct is not difficult. Just needs a new regulator and lots of revs... and maybe check the diode bridge to see if they can handle the extra voltage.


For what your doing, you want full belt anyway, voltage regulation is not the problem, you need them charged. If your EV is like mine, it can gobble up upwards of 100 amps easily... your alts are not likely to beat this, so will be playing catch up.... so a regulator may be a waste of resources, just a current regulator (eg light globe 12v 20W) acting as the current limit to the rotor will be sufficient. This is not to regulate the alts so much as to stop them stalling your Aux motor (which I assume is a small single piston thing). Your battery bank will keep the voltage under control until float voltage comes about.... not likely while your still driving.


In the unlikely event that it catches up to the batteries, then you can throttle back your aux motor, (use it for the rough regulator...less rpm so less output)....or turn it off.. or you could use a selector switch and switch in different light globe combinations for different charge rate regimes... sky is the limit once you come to understand how simple these things really are. Best economy is probably full bore or off..... which makes a regulator a waste of time really.


The real regulators themselves can be very unsimple (complex buggers) and sophistocated, but if you make your own using either a rheostat, globes or electronic like mine, you become the master of what happens.


All the best with it


.........oztules

« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 11:17:31 AM by oztules »
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bubbman

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Re: using dual 24v alternators to charge 48v?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 06:45:11 PM »
you sure can if you would like you can call and i will
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 06:45:11 PM by bubbman »