Author Topic: Doubling Up the Magnets (Read 4233 times)

d3lilley · « **on:** February 11, 2010, 02:48:54 PM »

I already have 16 grade 42 Neodyminium (sorry if spelling is off) magnets, and they are 1"x1". The plans I am following for the magnet rotors call for 16 2x1 inch magnets. Can I just buy 16 more 1x1 inch magnets, and attach one side of each magnet to each other, which will create a 2x1 inch magnet? I am not very knowledgable regarding magnetism, so please let me know if this or is not possible.

Thanks

hiker · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2010, 03:19:41 PM »

you can -but they will try to push away from each other..

if they dont have screw holes in them you will have to use

a clamp untill the glue sets up.

d3lilley · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2010, 05:37:31 PM »

Could I place the original 8 in their positions on the magnet rotor, and use some epoxy on them to make them stay, and then put some more epoxy on the rotor next to each magnet (where the second one will go) and force the magnets down on the epoxy (which will be right next to the other magnet) with a clamp or something, and hold it their until the epoxy hardens?

hiker · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:11:57 PM »

sure--i was going to mention that..

i like using super glue for gluing down the mags -sets up faster-sticks better..

then you could bury the mags in epoxy or what ever your favorite is..

DanG · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2010, 11:50:06 AM »

Its possible to keep two magnets alongside each other but its a stator killer if/when one has even a hint of come loose and hauls itself into the airgap trying to nest polarities...

willib · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:37:49 PM »

I would agree with DanG , when the elements start to work your rotors, and just one mag gets a little loose...could have disaster-us effects.

Your mags are 1 by 1 by ??

1/2 Inch ?

or are they 1 by 1 dia.

d3lilley · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:57:29 PM »

That does not sound very good. They are 1x1 and then .5 inches thick. if I used 16 of them (8 for each rotor) would it be too weak? I believe they are grade 42

willib · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:17:33 PM »

If you havnt got a mag rotor diameter already picked out , i can recommend one for you , since your mags are not rectangular.

for an 8 pole , 6 coil machine you could use a 5 inch dia rotor, with 2 inch dia coils.

or a 16 pole , 12 coil machine ,with a 9 inch dia. rotor and 2 inch dia coils.

d3lilley · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:47:43 PM »

I wound my coils according to "the other power"'s plans so I have 9 coils in my stator (which I already made). I went with an octagonal shape rotor because I did not have any tools that I could use to cut the steel plates in circle, so it was easier and cheaper to cut them into an octagonal shape. From the tip of one point of the octagon to the opposite point it is 12 inches. I was planning on putting 8 magnets per rotor, and the magnets would go near the tips of the octagon. Am I going to need more magnets?

willib · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2010, 06:15:20 PM »

I can relate to never having enough tools :-)

How wide is it from one flat to the opposite flat?

d3lilley · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2010, 07:08:20 PM »

From one flat to the opposite flat it is 11 inches. And yes, I have probably spent more money on tools then on supplies on this project. I learned a lot of new things though!

willib · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2010, 08:50:23 PM »

good you have an 11 inch dia rotor to work with.

I dont know how much help you need, but i could recommend a 15 coil 20 pole machine, with 2 inch dia coils and a 11 inch dia rotor.?

The magnet spacing will be 0.412 at the inside

http://www.fieldlines.com/images/scimages/2965/magspacing.JPG

d3lilley · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2010, 08:53:45 PM »

Hello,Is their anyway I could do it with a 9 coil stator?

willib · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2010, 09:56:14 PM »

there are certain things that need to be taken care of when designing a three phase machine.

ya need to make sure that the mags or poles are correctly presented to the coils.

if they are too close then there isnt much room for the coils, if they are too far apart , they will not react properly to the coils, and instead of getting a nice sinewave you will end up with voltage blips.

also the coils need to be of the proper size as well

which is why i always make my coils twice the magnet diameter

as in this example:

the mags are 1/2 inch dia. the coils are 1 inch dia.

Notice how the poles energize the coils .

http://www.fieldlines.com/images/scimages/2965/02_09_10_8mag_6coil_machine_2.JPG

what was the diameter that you were shooting for? on your stator?

what are the coil length and width? and the dimension of the legs.

willib · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2010, 10:20:13 PM »

sorry the mags needed to be rotated

In this example phase A is at a maximum .

While phase B is building up to maximum.

And phase C is approaching a minimum.

counter clockwise rotation.

http://www.fieldlines.com/images/scimages/2965/Amax.JPG

d3lilley · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2010, 09:03:36 AM »

I think I understand now. I wound my coils according to this:

So I am not sure what the diameter would be. The diameter at the bottom of my coils are about .61 inces, and at the top they are .86, so using those two numbers I can figure out that the diameter of the middle of the coils are .735 inches.

According to your method, that means I need .3675 (or about .4) inch diameter magnets? I don't understand what the diameter of a magnet is if it is a rectangle. Should I just purchase new 2x1 inch magnets? If so will I need 16 or 24?

willib · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2010, 10:37:02 AM »

If you want something that will work well i have given ya three examples of a working machine with your size magnets of 1 inch by 1 inch by 1/2 inches.

I usually use disk magnets BUT since yours are square that works too. as in this example: which shows the spacing between your size magnets , on an 11 inch dia rotor.

http://www.fieldlines.com/images/scimages/2965/magspacing.JPG

I also usually use round coils with my disk magnets , but the round coils will also work with your 1 by 1 magnets.

The three designs that i described were

an 8 pole (with 1 inch by 1 inch mags), 6 coil machine that uses a 5 inch dia rotor, with 2 inch dia coils.

or a 16 pole , 12 coil machine ,with a 9 inch dia. rotor and 2 inch dia coils which also uses your 1inch by 1 inch mags .

and after i found out that you have 11 inches dia available rotor space..

i suggested a machine that uses an 11 dia magnet rotor ( with your mags) and has 15 coils (of 2 inches in dia) with 20 poles , or 40 mags total. Is this what you do not understand? How to assemble a machine given this info?

Please reread all correspondence so far.

d3lilley · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2010, 11:38:08 AM »

Thank you for all your time and help. I understand the three different set ups you suggested. I am sorry for all the confusion. The only problem I am facing is that I already have my stator, and it is a 9 coil, 3 phase stator. That is why I keep suggesting other alternatives.

When I started this thread, I just wanted to know if it was possible to make magnet rotors with the supplies I have (16 1x1 1/2 thick magnets, and 11 in diameter rotors) that would work with the stator I already have. I am sorry if I did not make this clear in my previous postings.

If I can not make magnet rotors that will work with my stator with the supplies I have, can I buy more 1x1 1/2 inch magnets to make a 12 pole rotor which is suggested for a 9 coil stator? Or will I have to buy 2x1 1/2 magnets?

willib · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:32:38 PM »

i cannot recommend to you to spend money , that is something you have to decide.

I still have no idea what your stator looks like, no clue ?

On your coils ,you described the curve at the top , and the bottom .Thats it !

Please provide a link to what you are talking about

Hilltopgrange · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2010, 06:06:42 PM »

You could drill holes in your mags then screw and glue them to the rotors. You would need to use a vertical drill for accuracy but it is pretty simple to do. I used this method on my 16 footer and it works very well.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2009/5/23/135436/243

Regards Russell

d3lilley · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2010, 01:28:38 PM »

I made my stator according to these plans:

http://www.otherpower.com/statormold.shtml

I was planning on following their plans for the magnet rotors as well. If I do everything the way they did it (they used 24 magnets), can I just buy 8 more magnets (1x1 1/2 inch thick) and use them for my magnet rotors? Or will they be too weak? In the plans they use 24 2x1 1/2 thick magnets.

willib · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2010, 10:37:10 PM »

If you copied their design as in the photo

http://www.otherpower.com/images/feb2006/fe20_0003.jpg

then it should work ok.

Because your 11" dia rotors should put your mags right in the middle of the coils

I dont really think that your 1 by 1 by 1/2 inch mags will be too weak.

1 by 1 by 1/2 inch mags are pretty strong magnets so be carefull with them

it will not be as powerful as it could be, but it will be a nice first project , and should work out fine.good luck with it.

well you are gonna need 24 to finish the project so 8 more would be... helpfull

d3lilley · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2010, 12:52:47 PM »

Thank you for all your time spent helping me. You saved me a lot of frustration! I will just buy 8 more and then I am good to go! Thanks once again!

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Author Topic: Doubling Up the Magnets (Read 4233 times)