12v alt. power?

[toothpick]

If you took an electric ac motor with belt pulleys and a 12 volt auto alt. & a power inverter from 12vdc to 120vac & a 12 volt battery. It should be able to run itself and gain 35 to 40% free power?

An on the ball Editor would Kill this in a second but the Kinder, Gentler, can't hurt anyones feelings editor will just leave it for some humor.

[wdyasq]

Build several and sell the power back to the electric company.....

Ron

[BruceDownunder]

Nice one Tooth,

Listen, I've an idea, get rid of the pulleys and belts, they rob you of power ,now we don't want that .

Go direct drive , increase the gain , Ah, and by the way , what ya smokin ?

Bushboy

[RP]

The big problem with this is the mechanical wear from the vortex action of the rotating components.  You'd do better with a set of solar panels and some incandescent lamps to drive the panels.

Its important to use real Edison style carbon filament lamps though to match the Q factor of the solar panels at the zero-point.

[John II]

Hello Toothpick:

What you are talking about is known as perpetual motion. Now I believe that the real McCoy may exist where you take and latch onto a new form of energy that as just one example may be flowing between multiple dimensions which many scientist believe hypothetically and mathematically may exist.

But there is no frame work for your idea to do that.

Let's say you set the 120v ac motor on the outside edge of a round table... then a little bit further around the table you set your 12v car alternator.. and you connected a flexible shaft between those two. Then a little ways on around the table you bolt down a big inverter. Your Inverter is just like the grid... but first you have to hook temporarily to the grid to get your 120v motor running then you flip a switch that quickly disconnects you from the grid to your inverter which is now functioning like the grid. Here's what's going to happen.

Motors are about 80 percent efficient... meaning they loose 20 percent to heat in the windings and bearing friction etc. Same with Generators. And Inverters can loose up to 20 percent.. but we'll imagine we have the worlds most efficient one and say we only loose 10 percent.

Motor 20% + Alternator 20% + Inverter 10% = 50 percent of your original power is now lost. With half the power missing... how is the inverter going to have enough power to continue to run the motor ?

Now imagine each device having zero losses... you still would only have as much power coming out of the device as you were putting in. If everything was 100 percent efficient with no losses, it would still just barely be able to run it self, and there would be no excess power.

John II

[ignesandros]

Sorry to correct you, John II, but -20% + -20% + -10% = -42.4%, not -50%. Isn't math wonderful? Don't forget the 33% loss at the batteries, give or take. That puts you at a loss of 61.4% of your power.

-Andrew

[kitno455]

hehehe, hahaha, HO HO HO- please MR admin, dont keep doing this, i am laughing so hard my stomach hurts

forget the belt drive, losses are too great. use a window fan and one of ghurds boxfan windmills. i think betz calculated that you could get 590% of the power out that way. or am i off by an order of magnitude somewhere

or, better yet, a torque converter! you can use the spare heat generated in the fluid to run a steam plant, and cut the whole electrical bit out of the loop!

this is fun.

allan

[Lurker 417]

Don't forget that you have to carefully match the Stirling engines with the flux capacitor. It's all too easy to get a thermodynamic imbalance going. Hard to tell where you might end up!

[kenputer]

There is never a stupid question,but answers is another story....

[maker of toys]

I'm a little curious to know where you were going with that 'round' table in your example. . .

it's nice to know that not all of us are going to laugh in this guy's face without explaining the joke. . . <G> (saves me from explaining it)

[Lurker 417]

Uh, sorry. I thunk we was dealin with a obvious troll.

[kenputer]

Ah! in that case...you don't know no one that don't  want nothin done for them ,do ya?

[elvin1949]

HeHeHe

 Kinda reminds me of the farmers mule.

The farmer decided to cut the mule's

corn ration with sawdust to save money.

Everyday more sawdust and less corn.

 Worked real good to, right up till the mule DIED.

Moral---No-Free Lunch.

later

elvin

[MaxFlow]

The problem toothpick, and the reason everyone seems to want to have a laugh at your expense is because with this setup you will never produce enough power with the motor slash generator setup to feed back into the cycle. I won't make fun of your thought, I believe that anyone interrested enough about the fields of generating their own power should be encouraged not made fun of, it only takes one person that has a idea and a will to follow it to change the world!

You just need to first understand the benefits and constraints of thermodynamics, and then question them daily.

Listen, I have thoughts that most here would probably consider on the fringe of the

wildly obsurd, but I have belief, and thats all I need to lurch forward, because first off, I'm not trying to impress them, I am trying to impress myself!

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.  Archimedes

[toothpick]

The motors & generators & alternators of 30 plus years ago I would agree.

But with the progress in efficiency and modern electronics.

The motors have gotten smaller but using less electricty and producing more horse power and they've gotten away from brushes using magenets.

The generators & altenators require less drive and produce more power.

The inverters are more energy efficient.

So with all of this why not?

LAUGH IF YOU WANT but a group in Australia have already done it. Have you?

http://www.lutec.com.au/

[jimovonz]

I want to. Ha ha ha ho ho ho... And all they need is: "a million dollars to complete the technology to where we want it before releasing it in the form of a generator" ...ha ha ha ho ho ho...

Your in the wrong forum. You will find http://www.keelynet.com more to your liking.

May I also point out that anybody can post anything to the WWW. Anything. I could post a page claming what ever I please in a matter of seconds. No one reviews the contents of my page before I post it. I don't have to answer to anyone if what I say is proved incorrect.

Just to balance your view on this particular matter, I suggest you read the following page: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/lutec.htm including: Part 1 and Part 2 found at the bottom.

P.S.

If you post your email address I can forward it on to some unfortunate folk I know in Nigeria that will reward you handsomely for the brief use of your bank account so that they can get some of their hard earned and well deserved cash out of the country....