Author Topic: Fuel economy- The Rant continues (Read 336 times)

windstuffnow · « **on:** August 12, 2003, 07:42:13 PM »

Although back in the 70's there were cars that achieved between 50 and 100 mpg todays cars have the potential to get much better. The engines are getting smaller and more powerful... ever wonder why?

Toyota has a prototype that gets 104 mpg but by their own admission will never go into production. Look up the Toyota ES3 (Eco Sprint cubic). This is a hybrid/diesel combination. Or better yet how about a 265 mpg VW... although a bit awkward, is a tandem 2 seat with a 1 liter diesel. What do you suppose Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler is up to? I believe they have more to do with trying to keep them out as opposed to trying to compete with them. Just think of the money being spent on marketing these big expensive low mileage vehicals.

Gee even the government promotes gas guzzelers by giving tax breaks for those that own them... are they really concerned about the environment? Probably more concerned with their pocket books. It's not technology thats to blame here its Politics. Actually the average mpg now is lower than it was in the 80's. The government wants to set standards for fuel economy of 35mpg by 2010... 35mpg? The US is only 5% of the world population and accounts for 25% of the worlds energy use ... AND contributes 36% of all greenhouse gasses!

The technology is already here.... multivalve engine for better flow, change valve timing during light loads and close the exhaust valve sooner(6% increase in efficiency), let the computer set up lean burn for light loads as in crusing down the highway( another 6% in efficiency)... Optimize the transmission with better gearing ( up to 9% increase in efficiency). The list continues including materials other than steel, better tires, low friction lubricants, aerodynamics, more efficient pumps, alternators that work from the motion of the car (free recovery of lost energy), more efficient power steering units and on and on and on....

You see the point any way... whew... I feel better... But I've only touched on a very small and tiny tip of what could be... and in all reality should be.

Have Fun

Ed

windtech · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2003, 08:38:31 PM »

I agree Ed . I see those gas guzzelers every day at work and it's not only the bad fuel econimy that hurts. The government controls the taxes on the fuel we put in our vehicles. What do you think will happen if all vehicles got 50,60 mpg or more. Less gas being bought, less taxes the government collects, less pocket money for the energy companies pencil pushers. Not to mention the political effects of all this. I'm not even going to go there. I heard a story on our local news about taxing electric vehicles based on the mileage on the odemeter. Come on give me a break. It's obvious the old saying still holds true. The two things in life gurrenteed, Death and taxes.

All this neggaitve, Government, control stuff is one of the reasons I escape in my workshop to build things out of the ordinary. Its my way of keeping my sanity.

have fun.

Norm · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2003, 09:27:25 PM »

I do the same thing go to my workshop instead of driving the car, there I try to use hand tools to save using electricity. All the time I'm spending in the shop, is time spent off the road where I don't have to watch someone trying to hurry up and get to the red light so they can slam on the brakes and stop before it changes back to green.The sad part of what I just said is that this will be read by someone that won't understand (what the *9#! is he talking about?)Well I got that off my chest and I feel better too.Norm.

RobD · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2003, 10:14:09 PM »

I go to my workshop, build things out of the ordinary and it hasn't helped my sanity one bit.

My vehicle gets 125 mpgs. My other vehicle gets about 170 mpgs. They are both mopeds.

My Honda 150 scooter (not one of those cheapo tiny things) gets 55 to 60 mpgs but it will do 60 mph. It's the gas guzzler of the group. The new mopeds are coming out in 4 cycle now, I'm thinking of retrofitting. I shouldn't be telling you guys (sorry ladies it's just to much of a machine for you) about the secret world of mopeds,low cost (I buy mine used with adds in the local papers), zero insurance, high mileage and the chicks you'll pick and heads you'll turn on a 'cool' moped cause there just aren't enough to go around and besides I don't want to be the one to slow the oil flow down when we just got our own oil rich country to keep the SUVs rolling along.

Now that I'm entering 'geezerdom', well that's what Nancy says anyway, 35 mph on a moped is about right, although I do kick up the speed on the 150.

Ed, I think you need a moped. Maybe two. Let that breeze run through your hair, chill out and thumb your nose up at Uncle Exxon.

RobD

elvin1949 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2003, 10:16:12 PM »

good evening Ed

i solved that problem

[i quit driving ]

it is 50 mile's from home to the grocery

store and back. by no mean's is my health the best in the world [heart problem's]

i ride a bicycle and pull a trailer behind it.

it takes 5 hour's.

50 MILE'S TO THE HAMBURGER AINT BAD

no insurance or gas or plates to by

later

Elvin

RobC · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2003, 10:21:10 PM »

Yes it's a very sad situation those at the top only care about stuffing their pockets. I doubt anything will change untill the oil is gone or we can no longer get it. I believe the technology for change is here to day like Ed said but nothings going to change as long as there is plenty of oil. I am also sorry to say that I don't believe any of us can make a change in the big picture. We could sent a man like us to Washington but he would be eaten alive before he got to first base.

elvin1949 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2003, 12:31:48 AM »

say Robd

what ever happened to the old honda S90 built in the late 60's

60 mph 200 mpg

later

elvin

RobD · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2003, 06:41:27 AM »

Still there but I think the specs are generous. Figure 125-150 to the gallon and a lower top speed. Check Ebay. Don't want to go gas? Check out the electrics, charge them from your mill. I'm not crazy about the little scooters. Get the larger wheeled mopeds, they're more stable. Good brands are Honda, Yamaha, Tomos, Puch and Vespa. Nancy likes the Velo solex, it's claimed to have over 200 mpgs. Tomos sells new mopeds in the USA and in Europe you can still get the great names. You might be surprised to know that some mopeds have run 40 and 50 thousand miles. I'll take some pics and post them.

Elvin, sounds like you need a moped too!

RobD

windstuffnow · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2003, 08:20:47 AM »

I believe we can make a difference. Maybe not in the big picture of Politics but possibly of a secret society of tinkerer's that share devices that work. I'm not talking about perpetual motion machines or anything outlandish ( although in my heart I would like to believe its possible for such a device to work). The Dan's have provided a window to those tinkerer's.

I don't drive much either and try to consolidate all my trips into one outing. If I could get groceries online.. I probably would. Some things such as materials for my projects can't be ordered online so I'm stuck with having to go and get them. My vehical already gets above the government standard for 2010 but its my right to complain about it... since I was getting better mileage in 1970. I believe there are millions of people out there that would opt for devices that would cut their utility bill, increase their mileage or simply reduce the cost of living.

Granted if one of the car manufacture's did release one of these prototypes and fuel consumption was cut in half, there would be no savings whatsoever. They would simply increase the cost to match the loss and we would be no farther ahead than when we started although we may breath much easier and storms would digress.

Enough complaining... back to the shop...

Have Fun

Ed

DanB · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2003, 08:49:48 AM »

It's funny that my '30 model A gets upwards of 30mpg...

I think a BIG part of good fuel milage - at least in my case, is lousy brakes :-). If the brakes are not so good, it kind of forces a person to drive in a very defensive and predictable way. Driving this way actually makes things even safer than if I had good brakes I think, and it helps fuel economy greatly!

Demetri · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2003, 09:38:21 AM »

Here's my take on it, for better or worse, wrong or right:

Automakers build what people will buy, and a tiny, gutless 120mpg vehicle isn't it. Personally, I like having the horsepower to pull a hill without downshifting, pass the slower folks when I need to, and haul a load/pull a trailer. Fossil fuels are going to run out, whether our group does our part to save them or not; others won't. In the mean time, I want a vehicle fast enough to keep up with traffic in general, and still have a good bit of metal around me too. There's gonna be all kinds of hell breaking loose when fossil fuels do go down, and it will probably calm down after a decent alternative is found. I would rather that happens sooner, and gets over quicker, rather than later. Another consideration: I can only afford to own/operate one vehicle. The insurance and maintenence for second are beyond my means. I must be able to haul things and tow trailers, so I need a truck, and it's not possible to build a high mileage truck that'll still get work done. Unloaded and driving it easy, I regularly pull 22 mpg from my truck. That's nothing compared to what you people are talking about, but I consider it a great step up from the 6 mpg my Nova got. I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me, they can only afford one vehicle, a big truck or the like may be it for the same reasons I have my truck, and hence they have nothing else to get groceries with. Though this argument does not work for the soccer mom driving the Escalade or the Navigator. Those vehicles just disgust me.

Ok, I'm getting off my soapbox now.

Demetri

Dave B · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2003, 11:49:18 AM »

The technology is always available to do much better. Politics regulates the release of much of this technology to a great extent and therefore the availablity of current product. We will see (and are seeing) solutions to our energy needs only as it becomes critical, funny how this happens. I'm not fooled into thinking that the people on top don't care about our energy situation, quite the contrary. Milking the dollar for what it's worth demonstrates a total understanding, unfortunately these rules frustrate some (most) of us on this board who care more for prompt solutions to our environmental issues than stalling to line our pockets. Our concern and involvement in AE is the "fuel" that eventually releases either the old or our new technology (one way or the other) that will solve many of our energy problems. I don't totally agree with the system but I'm not a pot calling the kettle black either. I'm happy with my gas guzzler, I'm also happy being a part of this great group and learning AE ways because the issues are important to me and the real kicker is that it is fun. Just had to voice my opinion also. Dave B

dualsporter · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:01:15 PM »

Study it. Develop it. Improve it. Make it work. Share it only with those who understand. Then wait. The day will come.

Dualsporter

RobD · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2003, 05:25:47 PM »

All and all Ed a worthy rant.

RobD

elvin1949 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2003, 08:51:33 PM »

i don't need a moped

i live in louisiana

here you have to have everything you need to drive a car PLUS a motorcycle endorsment on your drivers lisence to ride one turn signals to

hand signals arent allowed

the specks on the honda are right i bought one new in 1967

the 65cc would get 235mpg

friend or mine had one it would do 50mph

later

elvin

Fieldlines.com: The Otherpower discussion board

News: