Why not use a simple search?????

[iFred]

OK, so here's my rant, Don't bite unless you have teeth...LOL

Why is it that there are SOOOO many postings of exactly the same questions that has been answered at least 3 times in different ways. It is now almost at the point that every time I check in I see the same questions that have already been answered in prior posts?

Does anyone care to do a search before posting... guess not..

Maybe highlight the hell out of the thing and bold it so everyone can see it!!

They say that pushing a button is instant gratification, but I guess that does not include a SEARCH for some reason or another.

K, my vent is done.... lets here your side of the "ask first search later saga"! LOL....

[TomW]

ifred;

Haha, you noticed this, too?

Long as we are ranting I will add the way off topic stuff, too. I won't cite examples but we had 2 today. Must be a generational thing. I had to dig in a dead tree library to get most of my information because when I asked thats where they sent me to find answers. A far cry from this feed me attitude we seem to have today.

Of course this comment is probably less than topical, too, so that finger is pointing at myself now ;=]

End Rant.

T

[Drives]

I have been reading this discussion board for over a month, and have probably read every posting from the past couple of years.  YOU GUYS ARE RIGHT!  Every question I could think of has been answered multiple times via the search function.  

A couple of months ago I started with ignorance, and now I know what to do to get started, and what mistakes that have already been made...Thank you.  I am struck by how helpful you folks are, it is great to see people still willing to give information freely.  

[MelTx]

 Hello. This is not meant to attack or vendicate anyone,just some thoughts on the subject,because it comes up so often.....

# 1 most repeat questions come from newbys,(they dont know what things are called  so they cant look it up)

 # 2 I used to be a tool & die maker .0001 stuff,you could ship something I made ten thousand miles away and it would fit, when it got there....BUT this diging in junk piles and making mills with hand tools is something else.Most of us seem to be shade tree Inventers and each machine is different.There are no real set standards.If you read the posts there are many answers to the same question.....AND futhermore the guy that answered one way this week might have said something else last week.

 # 3 AND THERE IS evidence of imbibing so a person might just be trying to find a sober answer this week....

 

[ghurd]

Sometimes I have a heck of a time trying to find something I remember from a few months ago.  Often I just can't get the right search string.  It is frustrating.

G-

[Norm]

  It would be so simple if all of us...me included would develop a good habit of sticking things into Favorites everytime you run across something that you might think might come in handy later put it in Favorites then once a day put these shortcuts onto a lowly floppy disk have several different ones for various categories .....

  My trouble with a simple search is trying to figure what to search for I can remember that iFred posted something about cutting hubs with a slant to them.....what would I search for hubs...props...? or what iFred posted....well guess I'll practice searching.

                ( :>) Norm.

[Norm]

  Yah...found it #72 stories by iFred....

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/1/9/05846/36371

'Making cheap blades using angles'

...so for example off this goes into favorites and then eventually into one of my several special floppies...

                    ( :>) Norm

[iFred]

I figure I have a pretty good memory. And I do save all the pages that I think are of value to a single folder just in case. Plus I am on dialup, so I can't afford spending time during the day looking for somethign that is already on my HD. I do a search their first, can't find it, do a search on the site, can't find it, do a seach on google, can't find it.. K, ask.

At least I tryied..

As for newbies, Admin, highlight the search button, and before they post, make them do a search, this is done by simplify.

Search page leads to post, not post leads to search!

In other words, seperate and have 2 pages. You must do a simple site search, then if this fails to give a result, proceed to second page for posting. As it is now, the search and post are in the same page, they ignore the search and immediatly post, which is right below it, nice and convienent. make'em do some work!! LOL

[zmoz]

I think a big part of the problem is the fact that you cannot bump up old threads on this board like you can on every other board. If you want to continue a discussion that has fallen off the first page you have to start it all over again. This software is HORRIBLY outdated and I think it would be a HUGE improvement here to move onto something like Vbulletin, phpBB, or Infopop. This board was in style in about 1996.

[wooferhound]

Hmmm ,  They just changed the software about 2 or 3 years ago.

http://www.otherpower.com/cgi-bin/webbbs/webbbs_config.pl

Another weird thing about this Boards search function is the fact that you really can't search the entire board in one whack. You can only search Comments OR Stories.

[drdongle]

Which then begs the question how is that upgrade payed for? I'm willing to kick in $50.00.........

Carpe Vigor

Dr.D

[laskey]

Here's an observation for you.

I've been around a couple of years here and I didn't even know we had a search function.  So I looked and sure enough there it is way at the bottom of the page... out of site, out of mind.

You gotta give the newguys a break.  When someone ask an old question around here, I've noticed the sheer attitude of the guys "in the know".  We're making power from junk!!! Did your grandpa ever answer your questions with a "go search". If you are saying that too much then it sounds too me like it's time for a promenently displayed FAQ.

So, Unless one of us is going to write the bible on renewable home power production, we gotta give these guys a hand. The net is no place for a newby.  There is nothing more dangerous to a forest than a green forest ranger with a match.  It's in our own best intrest... More power from us, less greenhouse gases in the air.

...Well someone had to defend the other side. >

Cya,

Chris

[windstuffnow]

  Personally, I don't let little things like that bother me. Life is way to short.  If I have time I don't mind answering the same or similar questions over and over again.

  The point made on "language", finding the correct search word or phrase can be quite frustrating at times.   I may call it one thing and someone else may call it something else so the search is out the window.   Since searching isn't based on any real intelligence you can find a mountain of information for any given word and none of which may have the information your looking for.  

   It might be different if the same person was asking the same question over and over, then there would be reason to rant, but new people trying to learn will succeed more quickly with a friendly answer to their question.

   I used to frequent the USENET groups for answers to my questions but quickly found the people there were more intent on correcting your spelling, correcting your terminology or just plain rude idiots.  I'd post a simple question and get ridiculed because my knowledge was less than theirs.  Very seldom would I get an answer to my question although many replied to the post.

   Negative replies don't inspire someone toward success, they inspire failure.  If someone says "hook this wire to that one" instead of "Go do a search because that question has been asked to many times"  it could mean the difference of "Wow it worked this is great.. I did it!   Thanks for your help!" instead of giving up and tossing a perfectly good project in the trash and never comming back.

   This isn't an attack on anyone, just a personal opinion... If your having fun doing something its easy to inspire someone else to have fun.   If it looks hard and tedious its no longer fun.

Have Fun

Windstuff Ed

[skravlinge]

Even this subject  had answer berfore!   The questions comes ftom real problems, the search can give the anwers, and I mean searching the whole net.  It is not allways so it is  just to follow the archived advices, you might need follow up questions, and get things clear. Ptolemaios had once for all told us the earyh is flat.

[DBGenerator]

I kind of thought this software was kind of....basic.  I didn't want to trash the guys that set up the site.  They do a great job.  But I did notice that you can't bump stuff to the top and the search function is a little "clunky".  Maybe make up some sub catagories.  That would help organize it for now if there is no chance of changing the software soon.  Thanks to the guys that maintain this site.  It has a lot of great information.

Dave

[skravlinge]

Right , here is  guys,  they knows? If this board were in Sweden some women have been active here. Search for women here, and you get one hit(she is angry). Knowledge is a difficult process, even a stupit question has the value, its need an answer and that question can be repeted. A stupit answer has the value it can be corrected at the spot ,if its not dwelling in an archive. Some times the persons answer get corrected and  that person have learn some new, and what is more important to know, you did not know ,than make a question of what you do not know.

[RatOmeter]

Try the google search, it's better.  Both search links are now in plain view at the upper right of every page.

http://www.fieldlines.com/special/google

[picmacmillan]

my gist on this is simple........because this is trial and error i ask a certain question to see if in fact people would still use a certain size, method, whathaveyou....i have found that when i try to emmulate something someone else has done, they have since that time found a better method of doing a process(such as coils size etc)..when i post a fresh question it usually gets an up to date answer...as a giver i also try to put what i had done wrong in my testing so as others may not have to do the same mistakes i did...the problem is the posts name may not indicater exactly what we are after and trust me, i have read and saved hundreds of them.......everyone i have met or spoke with has changed their respective process over time......anyhow, see you in a day or so fred...take care....pickster

[iFred]

I'm not against Newbie's, hell I was one and still am one in many areas. I just find that the redundancy of the same post is irritating, no bad intended here at all. I realize the software has limitation's, I do wholeheartedly support the admin of the board and this board without question.

Perhaps I'm just being overcritical, comes with the territory of being here so long and reading everything on everything. I like to help when I can, I have no problem with this.

I believe Ed stated best; that finding the correct search word or phrase can be quite frustrating, and others stated because the software has limitations only humans can decide what works and what does not.

I agree that inspiration is key to the success of this web site, instant response is also a primary key, without question. So perhaps I can change the attitude. Thanks for the responses and reality check.

[Arno]

It used to take me all evening to go through the latest postings. They were filled with great and interesting ideas and many of the posters began to seem like old friends. Now I sometimes wait two or three evenings before checking in and finnish the latest posts in an hour or so. There seems to be a lack of new and fresh ideas out there and no more fun give and take on new projects, except rants. If you send the newbes of to do their own searches, what the hell are the rest of you going to do?    Arno

[DanB]

Im with you 100% on that Ed.  

Just so everyone knows..

There is a search (google search) that comes up quite clear and obvious when you hit the button 'submit posting' - its the first thing you see.  Past that - there's not much we can do.

But as I see it... this is a discussion board, it's the nature of any discussion forum thats fairly specific to a top that the same questions get asked over and over again.  Like Ed said... I dont mind answering the same questions over and over again if I have the time.  Searching is tedious - and sometimes it might yield wrong results.  I know lots of folks do use the search - but not everyone will and sometimes folks will not find the answers they're looking for, or they might care to lead the discussion in a new direction.  sometimes new ideas even come up when old topics get revisited.

It doesnt bother me, it's the nature of this kind of forum.

[Dave B]

I think Fred's frustration comes from wanting to help as many as possible. When the board started it was small and the "regulars" helped each other and the number of members limited the repeat questions. Progress has changed all that but the exitement (especially for someone new) to receive a first hand answer from a support group in my eye still remains. Remember what it was like and how different you would feel now to hear "go search". Again, I feel that that response is nothing more than frustration of not being able to continue to help with new questions AND the repeat questions as the growth of the members here now makes that nearly impossible. To me the added benefit of more members to the board  and their contribution to us all more than makes up for their immediate quest for knowledge which is the same excitement common to us all. To the new members I say "you will not find a more helpful group or better board on RE" Yes, the search is available and may surprise you with additional information on questions you may have as there has been alot of ground work done here. As far as wanting to join the "discussion board" I say, ASK AWAY, someone will help. Dave B.

[tecker]

  Ok Dans do an e book and take the board up a notch.

[zmoz]

PhpBB is FREE! :-)

[zmoz]

Don't get me wrong...I thinkt he Dans are doing a great job running this place, and I'm glad they put in all the time to do it. I do think, however, they made a poor choice in choosing board software. I don't think this board is an upgrade at all from the old board.

[dalibor]

When i discovered this site, i was very pleased with so many things a could read here. but when i got first replies on my questions, i was smiling from "ear to ear", satisfied with others people will to help. i think this is the best on this site - putting newbies "on the legs" in "HBE". I thinking about my self as a freshmen, but willing to read and learn and once, when finance allows, to build smth to make me proud. everyone of us comes with his own story, trying to swallow as much as can knowlidge in area of interest. if someone is bored with similar questions, its ok, just jump over. i am willing to read, somewhere is something for me!

once again, thanks to everybody here, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, with more eco power and less polution and bombs worldwide.

greetings from serbia

[elvin1949]

thank you Ed

later

elvin

[scott h]

hello all i have been on this board for around 4 to 5 years i dont do much posting on here but i do talk to everybody over on the otherpower irc board this has came up lots of time over the years and i have to agree with ed and dan on this i have said befor i dont get it why people get upset over the same questions on here thats part of a disscusion board in my thinking you have the freedome of posting a comment or not i notice most spend more time complaining about it then it takes to just ansewer the question if it bothers you then dont post a comment to it nobody is going to take away your birthday and i didnot notice anybody mentioned the hotlist option all you have to do is click on add to hotlist and it will put the post to the sidebar on the rightside of the screen then you can goback and read it asmany times as you need to ok there is my rant on this

happy holidays to everybody

scotth

[nothing to lose]

Some of us do alot of searches, either 0 hits or 1,000 hits for things that don't apply to what we were seaching for. One of the problems with almost every seach engine is that if something is just mentioned in passing and does not actually apply to the topic it is still there and the post returns in a search.

Grandma's house for gifts.

Now I wonder how many people will find this site doing a google for "nice gifts to take to grandma's house" for christmas this year ?  

 This post will probably shows up in a list of 3000 hits for people who want nothing to do with power.

Titles don't mean alot. Post a question or results for one thing and often the post gets into something else, as intended but not titled.

"I built a 5k wind gennie and it works" for a title and then the post gets off into "it put's out 48V how do I get it down to 6V?" All the answers may be there but the title don't show it and in 300 hits for a search it may not be read by those of us doing the search. I know my answers are here somewhere when I am asking question, but I rarely find them with a search though I do try.

Some of us are search illiterate, see above also. We simple cannot think of the correct way to do a search to get the results we look want. For example I was searching for something the other day, I KNEW I had posted something on the topic MYSELF already in the past. Could I find my own post?? NO!!

 I did finnally find MY post and the answer I wanted was in the same group of posts, above or below mine somewhere. I found mine only because I knew it had been less than 3 weeks since I read and posted in that subject and went back 20 pages of postings at a time till I found

Some of us are not too smart, see above! Right after that I realized I could have just viewed the "Your Comments" to find the post I had made!

Sometimes seaches just don't work!

While searching for something I know has been posted on 100 times I kept getting 0 hits, Finnaly I got 1 hit, that hit one of the dans suggested seaching frequently asked questions for (Whatever it was). I did that, 0 zip, nada. No hits at all!

I too hate seeing the same old basic questions at times, I hate asking those questions myself even more!

The suggestions of bookmarking specail posts is a good one, something I just started doing myself a few days/week ago. Have a specail folder of bookmarks for other power only stuff. Still, it doesn't help unless the person as seen the post at least once already though.

If the forum software gets changed to something else at anytime, I would like to suggest looking at pcabusers.com or videohelp.com and see what they use. I am not complaining, but this is the hardest forum to use of all those I been on. Replies are the worst. All other forums seem to have all the posts in a message group in a row when you click to reply. Simply scroll to the message you want to quote or re-read and it's there. Here you only get the one specific message you clicked to post or replie, so if you have 2 or 3 things to say regarding several posts it's harder to do. If I want to quote 2 people I have to make 2 posts. Or did I missed something??

 Love the forum and not complaining, just suggesting. I don't know what the other 2 forums I mentioned use for software, both are different, but it seems both are very easy to use.

[JW]

I just want to state for the record, I wasnt gonna post to this one, BUT there just seems to be so much activity on this one, "and" what the hell.

 It never bothers me to see the same questions asked over and over, if I can remember how to search for another posting(and post a link) that yields a simple, well-thought-out-answer, I am more than happy to do so. That being said, Im just like everyone else, and sometimes, quite frankly, I just dont have the energy... This is when I tend to feel quilty(and make excuses) and rather than say sometimes its really hard work, I just say OH YOU SHOULD JUST DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND NOT BOTHER ME WITH THAT. this is usually within (micro)seconds of me relizing why I frequent this board. it makes me feel good to help others in a way thats mutualing satisfing...

[RatOmeter]

phpBB and, more recently, PHP itself have been found to be extremely vulnerable to attacks.  Another forum I visit, http://forum.grid.org has been defaced twice in as many days.

More info:

http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=244451

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/21/2135235&tid=220&tid=217&tid=169

[troy]

1. Common questions from newbies are a necessary irritant, but can also be fun.
   
2.  A more complete FAQ would help a little, but that also involves work, and I am already amazed at the amount of work the Dans put into this project.
   
3.  In my experience, the people who know how to search effectively (on this board, or Google, or anywhere else, like the library) are usually the ones who don't really need much of my help anyway.  While the ones who have a lot of trouble searching, also probably need a more direct answer to their specific question to keep them inspired and on the way to success.  
   
   

Despite the minor drawbacks, I love this board.

Just for a comparison, take a look sometime at the Homepower.com discussion board.  While I love Homepower (the periodical) the discussion board is so full of flame wars and trolls that it's not that much fun to read for on topic info.  This board however, runs like a well oiled swiss watch by comparison.  These folks will generally bend over backwards to help you out.  That's a rare commodity these days, and I intend to enjoy it and nurture it as much as I can.

Good luck and have fun doing it!

troy

[rotornuts]

I love this site and have drawn lots of inspiration from it. I tend to operate with the philosiphy that theres always a better way and to imply that the definitive answer has already been given assumes there is only one way and wouldn't seem to be in the spirit of this board. I've often considered reposting the same questions I've already asked just to see if someone who didn't see the original post has a different take on it. Anyhow I thoroughly (strangely I had to look that one up in the dictionary) enjoy this  place and hope to continue to enjoy it in the future.