Author Topic: Advertising on fieldlines (Read 795 times)

Tom in NH · « **Reply #33 on:** June 02, 2006, 10:03:40 PM »

I don't think I would find plain relevant ads objectionable. There are a couple ramifications you might want to consider though. If the ads are effective, they will steer readers away from your site. I'm no expert, but something in my gut tells me this is not a good thing. I don't know how much income ads like that generate, but you might think about how that income would compare with increased sales if you were to put your own ads for your own products up instead. That would help steer readers to your products and services instead of your competition's, and it might be more profitable. Another thought I have is it doesn't really matter what people say about whether ads would be objectional or not. Ultimately they will vote with their feet, or with their mouse clicking fingers, rather. You may find that placing ads may change the character of more than just the looks of your website. It may also change the character of your readership. You may lose readers with one set of interests and gain readers with another set. -tom

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #34 on:** June 02, 2006, 11:09:01 PM »

You know, I thought ads were a great idea until I read this post. Tom's got me wondering. You might also consider doing what Jarrod on the Brickboard does. He's solicited "donations" to the tune of $3000 already twice. Now he's on the third round and was up to $2800 last time I checked. Granted Volvo owners might be a little more loose with their checkbooks than homebrew RE guys but I guarantee, if you solicit donations, you will get them. Whether or not they compare to Google ad revenue, I don't know. The Brickboard seems to be doing both ads and donations so maybe you could keep the ad revenue for the business and give Matt the donations so he could buy more Volvos and fix his Jaguar. :-)

PS, do you get more revenue for "click throughs"? I'd click a few a ads a day if I knew I'd be supporting this site.

terry5732 · « **Reply #35 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:13:52 AM »

These google ads are some of the least obtrusive ads out there.

Having said that, google has been hugely corrupted from what it was just a couple years ago. Many marketers have found how to get "picked up" by google to where the tops 100 hits are almost always ads with NOTHING to do with your search.

Don't be surprised if the Google ads key in "blowing" and come up with something other than windpower.

oztules · « **Reply #36 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:29:09 AM »

Well Danb,

As a forcefield customer, I have only been able to buy Hugh's books from your site to date, the mags and wire is too too expensive to freight down here..

However,

Point 1.

From the perspective of your trial ads as against download time, they are of no significance at all. It takes longer to load the side bars in the left hand side than it did for the ads by google. I suspect that i'm at the slowest place in the whole world, and i can assure you it is of no consequence.

Point 2.

Anything you do decide will have little consequence to the members if the ads are at the top of the page, as we will never see them coz we are too busy reading the posts..... so no intrusion as far as I can see.

Point 3.

If it helps to keep this resource on the air, then just do it. A tiny inconvenience And a resource, is worlds ahead of no inconvenience and No resource.

Point 4.

It is selfish for any members to expect that you should suffer any hardship to keep this site up, if it can be eased in this.

So thats the view from slow down below

............oztules

dinges · « **Reply #37 on:** June 03, 2006, 04:16:13 AM »

Oz,

If you want to, I still have a modem lying around that you could use; might speed up your connection

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/3538/060510_modem.jpg

electrondady1 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:27:05 AM »

danb, you would still be a cool guy if you became more arressive selling your own finished mills and kits and all the parts /products and . you might have to put on a second shift at the shop !

wind pirate · « **Reply #39 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:35:03 AM »

Dan

Thank you for caring enough about the RE family to ask for opinions. In the end you have to do what is right for your family and community. Adds will not kill this site - "you'll lose readers / contributors". That is unfounded. If folks find this site to be of value, they will continue to read and participate regardless of adds, etc. Anyone who has attempted to build a homebrew gennie has faced more challanges and obstacles than simple adds on a website.

From my personal perspective, this site has been a tremendous resource in my pursuit of RE. The knowledge base that resides here, yourself, Nando, Flux, Windstuff ED, and countless others from all over the world, is a resource and friendship that is unequalled. I can't tell you how many people I have referred to your site when they ask about RE. There is a very loyal following of people that crave new information, and want to hear about other's personal experiences.

The biggest threat to this site is if you can no longer afford the costs and the time to keep it going. That would be a tragedy. If adds can prevent that, so be it. If subscription dues prevent that, so be that too. If this site goes away, the entire RE community will lose a very valuable resource, that speaks the truth and exposes the hype, and gives everyone a chance to speak their mind.

I hope that everyone understands what is at stake here, and support the Dans - no matter what it takes.

Wind Pirate

FrankG · « **Reply #40 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:59:39 AM »

Like all the other posts, the decision is yours and I would never begrudge you the priveldge of exercising it...

For my part if FieldLines were a paid subscription service I would NOT Hesitate to pay upto $25 USD per year to be a member (Even with Ads), simply because of the value of the "Collective Intelligence" of the community...

The trend of GoogleAds has definately changed the landscape of the web, such that I actually notice websites that have no ads... I too thought that I may as well cash-in & even went so far as to register theworkshop.ca for a GoogleAds account... Ultimately I opted Not to implement the ads as it occured to me that my motivation in creating that site was never to generate revenue, and I was concerned that I may be starting down a road that would influence the content and/or style...

The Web itself is a curious phenomenon in that it provides a unique environment for expression to a broad audience offering a diversity of content so wide I can't think of an adequate analogy. With the addition of the advertising market I think that there is a possibility that overtime the potential for such services to implement a "Code of Conduct" or "Guidlines for Content" is such that the earlier spirit of expression that typified the web would be watered down to a bland pap for the masses.

Perhaps this is a bit too heady for a Saturday morning...

elvin1949 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 03, 2006, 06:17:59 AM »

Wind Pirate "I agree 100 percent."

I stumbled around in the dark for 35 yr's

looking for GOOD re info. I landed here.

The world lit up.Over 3 yr's ago.

DanB

Ad's are fine with me [no pop-up's PLEASE]

THANK YOU for a well run site. If only you had been here 35 yr's ago.

later

Elvin

Phil Timmons · « **Reply #42 on:** June 03, 2006, 07:31:57 AM »

For my pointless of view -- money / income is good a good thing and it sure beats debt and spending. So anybody buying a ticket is a welcome thing.

A couple of technical "downside" notes and issues --

I have watched a couple of sites I tend to visit (sftt.org -- military has-been sort of site and whatreallyhappened.com -- yeah, I am a mild conspiracy nut ) had some problems when they started google adsense. The first site would lock on Mozilla/Firefox, and second on windows Internet Exploder. I think it was a time-out problem when the ad server (the second server where the ads are generated from) -- Anyway, they would tend to lock-up the visitor's machine and cause a total dump from the internet. Not a way to make your site popular. I do not know how (if) these were resolved or fixed, but they are both very recent bugs.

While the text feature of the google ads are nice for bandwidth and have no obnoxious flash features, they cannot be "shut-off" through the browser preference option of "do not load images." So if they are on the site, they get loaded.

I have also noticed that some sites that use them get inadvertent results. Not that google is trying to use bad content at all -- it all just operates on a mindless machine model. I have observed their bad placement model on a pharmacy drug risk site "advertising" (through google automation) the same drugs the site is stating warnings and cautions against . . . and another one that was so funny, I sent the screenshot image file to the advertiser. It was for luxury cruises placed next to a news story of people getting sick and dying on . . . cruises. Not where you want to see your ad.

But overall Dan, I would probably do it, watch the ad content and listen to hear what folks think, and fire google if they are a harm to your mission.

phil b · « **Reply #43 on:** June 03, 2006, 12:11:45 PM »

It's your site. If takes ads to keep it alive and not be a financial burden to you, go for it. It's very nice of you to ask.

How about adding small icons advertising your products with weekly specials such as on magnets or wire on each page? Just an idea.

On the other hand, I'm on a 48K dial-up and would not like to see the ads because of that. I'd rather spend money on a subscription or make donations or spend the money directly on your products to keep the site up.

If you do put ads on your site, it will not keep me from reading the posts or buying supplies from your other site. The info gained here is just too valuable.

Please do whatever you think it takes to keep the site alive and food on the table.

Phil

iFred · « **Reply #44 on:** June 03, 2006, 01:05:16 PM »

I stated that ad's where a good thing for you to pay off the servers long ago. Consider that putting ad's up will also eat up bandwidth for each refresh or log in, so no free lunch. i'm also one of those people with a 56k modem, so i naturally hate graphical type ad's and pop-ups are a no-no as is anything that has to ask me to install it, I hate adware-spyware. A good choice is the text ads that match content. What you could do is try it for say 3 to 6 months and see what happens and see how your bandwidth changes as well and then decide if it's for you.

good luck!

ifred

geoffd · « **Reply #45 on:** June 03, 2006, 05:09:16 PM »

I'm all for it, especially if it helps keep the site free.

Geoff

oztules · « **Reply #46 on:** June 04, 2006, 02:18:17 AM »

It's ok Dinges, I climbed the mountain in my backyard (only 700 feet above the surrounding area), and lost my camera (had some good stills in it too).

Up there I've found a clearing on the top, where I think with good wet blanket, a fire and a fair wind, a smoke signal site may be established.

When I brush up on my smoke signalling.... text only with no pop-ups could be a reality somewhat better than I currently have.

There are some caves up there that I may be able to plug your modem into.... perhaps from the same era.

Thanks for your kind offer anyway

.............oztules

Waterfront · « **Reply #47 on:** June 04, 2006, 05:24:19 AM »

I totally agree

JF · « **Reply #48 on:** June 04, 2006, 05:27:06 AM »

Dear Friends

Many thanks to the Dan's for requesting our comments

concerning this issue. I agree fully with both what

Mr Wind Pirate and Mr Zubbly and others have mentioned.

It is your decision - as "site holders and administrators"

- I am sure that all will favourably respond to whatever

final decision you make.

The most important is that this site be maintained as a

vital - free and open site for qualified information,

assistance and exchange of ideas - for the benefit of all

friends and colleagues - in all countries and situations.

Whether this requires a subscription from a nucleus group

of members - or through the proposed cooperation agreement

with "google" or through a combination of both is possibly

a question to be considered

With greetings and best wishes to all - JF

TomW · « **Reply #49 on:** June 04, 2006, 11:46:10 AM »

Dan;

Well, I cannot open that test page from here in FireFox at all. It pops up in internet exploder right now. FF 1.04 on Mac OS X. Pretty tight privacy settings no javascript, etc. Just a heads up that you may cause problems for some users in specific situations.

The text ads looked ok I guess in exploder not obnoxious.

Please forget you saw me admit to ever using M$ I feel so dirty....

Cheers.

TomW

david anderson · « **Reply #50 on:** June 04, 2006, 02:13:44 PM »

It isn't that difficult with Scoop. If I recall, you would just put it in a box, and have the box only show up to those that are not logged in.

What I would do is just create the box and let users remove it in their "Display preferences". The thing is that some of the logged in users might actually like to have the ads, like you said about Home Power magazine.

On the other side, with AdSense smart pricing, you are better off not serving up any ads to those who would never click on them anyway, so it is good to let the logged in people "opt-out".

david anderson · « **Reply #51 on:** June 04, 2006, 02:37:27 PM »

Hi DanB,

As a long time lurker who is just beginning to get to the point where I can start experimenting with RE, you have finally brought up a topic where I can comment with some knowledge.

AdSense really is a Good Thing for small websites. Not knowing the traffic levels here or what ads in the RE field pay out, it is hard to say what you will bring in. Worst case you will almost certainly cover your hosting and a few pizzas. Best case you could greatly increase your R&D budget and come up with some more wonderful ideas to share.

Google takes their AdSense TOS seriously, and you will be responsible for everything that goes on the site. In fact, there might be comments to this story that would violate the TOS and they will need to be deleted before you put ads on this page.

As an example, what I am about to write WILL need to be deleted because of what I am about to explain

You cannot encourage anyone to click on any of the ads. You cannot allow any of the users to discuss clicking on the ads. If someone posts "Just check out the ads that pop up to help you find one" you will need to delete that comment. And since I just said that, you will need to delete this comment.

You cannot allow discussion of helping you out by clicking on ads. That is a bad thing as well. Even if someone mentions that it should not be done, that is against the TOS.

Ad placement is important as well. Being somewhat unobtrusive is fine, but hiding it below the fold doesn't do anyone any good either. If you are serving up relevant ads, then it is in the user's interest to see them.

I'll send you more in an email later tonight.

icicle · « **Reply #52 on:** June 05, 2006, 01:51:02 AM »

I really don't like ads that much, But if they can KEEP them simple and not to big

Go for it, you can always cancel them

hvirtane · « **Reply #53 on:** June 05, 2006, 03:43:06 AM »

This is Your site and You can do whatever You want concerning this issue.

In general I think that ads by for example 'Google' would make quite complex restrictions on the site as the previous writer told. This site would not be 'free' after those ads, but the people putting there ads would like to have influence on the contents of the discussion. It might also mean that you would loose several of the contributors for this site.

The important issue is that you are now using so much of your time to run this site that probably must get some kind of income for running it. It is maybe worth of trying to find also other solutions how to run this site without money or making money to be able to run it.

---

1)

One possibility is that you could maybe find volunteers to do the administration.

a)

Somebody in a rather similar position as you were with your business some three - four years ago, might be willing to do the administration free for some time, because she/he would get so much benefit by learning from the site that she/he would do the administration to increase her/his business by doing it.

b)

Somebody studying the renewable energy field at an educational institute might be willing to do the administration for the reason to learn this stuff.

c)

Somebody, a retired person maybe, might be willing to do the administration free, because of not in the need of more money and thinking that it is the best way to utilize her/his time.

d)

There could be a network of people, who would do the administration free together so that nobody would need to invest too much time in it.

e)

There are certainly more ideas within the people.

2)

There might be other ideas how to make money by running the site.

a)

If 'Classifieds' would be utilized effective ways that might create money. There are certainly quite many people reading this site and for that reason 'Classifieds' is a good place sell the stuff, many people would see the ad. You might put a fee for putting an ad on 'Classifieds'. 8% - 10% of the price of the goods would go to the site? 'Classifieds' could be changed into a commercial part of the site. People, who don't like business wouldn't need to read it.

b)

There are certainly other businesses besides Yours, which have learned a lot by this discussion.

Maybe some other people doing small business on the renewable energy field would come to help You with administration/money. Maybe people like 'WindstuffEd', 'Jerry', 'windcruiser'...

c)

Maybe You/we could work out cdroms using the information available here to be sold to make money to run the site. For many people it is worth of paying 20$ - 50$ to get the information home on a cd rather than paying for the bandwidth to search and download the information.

d)

other ideas?

- Hannu

dinges · « **Reply #54 on:** June 05, 2006, 04:21:12 AM »

Most of the things you've mentioned under part-2 of your solutions (how to generate money) would make most users run, not walk, away from this site. I know I would. A few advertisements would have far less impact on the users than what you describe under point-2. Just my opinion.

The solutions under point-1 could take workload out of their hands, but the issue of the cost remains. Personally I would have less problem with the Dans pushing their products a bit harder on this board than seeing advertisements from strange businesses here.

Finally, thanks to the Dans for asking us for our opinion, instead of just shoving a solution down the users' throats. I like this board a lot and wouldn't want it to change one bit, but I guess I don't have to pay for it all like the Dans.

PS: have you ever thought of opening a 'shop' in Europe? I think a lot of Europeans would buy their magnets from you (I would) if there wasn't the issue of shipping costs from USA to Europe. I understand there is a UK version of otherpower? The 'shop' could just be a shipper from within Europe, whereas orders would go via your regular website & payment to the European shipper? Just an idea. But, if you're just breaking even in USA, I don't expect much profit from going 'international'

Peter.

elvin1949 · « **Reply #55 on:** June 05, 2006, 04:21:55 AM »

TomW

M$ will wash off.

later

Elvin

dinges · « **Reply #56 on:** June 05, 2006, 06:27:49 AM »

One more thing; advertising makes the board look less professional and more amateurish, IMO. I tend to associate advertising with certain websites and people who create them (free internet-space providers, geocities, tripod, etc.) This is more a subconscious thing, but may still be something to take into account. I like the professional, no-nonsense look of this board. No frills, just plain information, no distractions, no flashy imagery, no ads, just bare-bones information. There's too little of that on the net nowadays.

Have you considered asking for donations for this board? I think there would be quite some people who would be more than willing to help out in offsetting some of the costs of this board.

nothing to lose · « **Reply #57 on:** June 05, 2006, 07:32:41 AM »

I love the forum and made some good friends as well as learned alot here.

I'd rather send you $20 to just support the forum a bit and you place ads for stuff you sell, instead of random junk from elsewhere.

Ads can be a good thing, that's how I found out about DVD-R printable disks and $1,000 disk printers years ago, then built my own disk printer for less than $50. That was before Epson had the $200 disk printers.

Most of the time ads are not that good though for anything. How many clicks or whatever do you need to get that $20 I'd happily donate? Can you control the ads we see or are they just random whatevers from anywhere?

Personnally I think a far better idea would be to make a rough DVD to sell. Basically just video the building of the gennies with a DV camcorder, explain what parts are and how they are built. What this part is, where it goes, what it does type stuff. Nothing super fancy, just build the gennie as normall and record it, 1 piece at a time.

Holywood quality is not needed, this is homebrew work so why not a homebrew DVD

If quality turns out perfect fine, but rough edges permitted!

I would pay $20 for it myself! If there is enough traffic here on this site to make any decent money with ads then I am sure a $10-$20 DVD would make far MORE money!! Ads cannot be sold on E-bay either, DVD's can

Add a banner or link here for the DVD, add it to products at Wondermagnet, add it to Otherpower, sell on ebay, etc...

I am 98% sure it would bring in far more money! Heck sell it on TV if it turns out good enough! You already build the gennies, you don't need to dig the gold mine, your sitting on the nugets! Just pick them up and cash them in!

Any interest about this and want info, e-mail me!

I could probably do everything but the video taping, even get commercail disks pressed.

I used to do such things but it's been awhile.

strider3700 · « **Reply #58 on:** June 05, 2006, 11:35:49 AM »

Tools -> extensions

at the bottom right - Get More Extensions

In the new window at the top Right you'll find search search for "adblock"

The results list will list 7(at the moment) results find adblock (note I use adblock not adblock plus)

Click it's link and then do install now.

Go back to the search window and find

Adblock Filterset.G Updater

Install it as well

Restart firefox.

Adblock is the program that allows you to build a list of things to block from viewing, just right click on the banner add and go to adblock image.

the adblock filterset.G updater is a program that grabs a maintained list of blocked things Every few day. You'll see very few adds using it.

Back on the original topic, I kinda like google adwords and wouldn't mind seeing them.

david anderson · « **Reply #59 on:** June 05, 2006, 12:30:00 PM »

Yeah, a lot of sites go overboard with the ads, but the experience of a lot of webmasters has shown that a page with a single well placed ad block can actually make you more money than a page that is loaded up with ads.

In the case of AdSense, the program even restricts the amount of ad blocks that you are allowed to put on a page to 3.

whatsnext · « **Reply #60 on:** June 05, 2006, 01:34:17 PM »

Strider, Your desciption of how to 'work' Mozilla is definately more concise than mine would have been so thanks. I agree that Google ads can actually be kind of fun. They use some sort of 'smart' logic to place them and the results can be pretty funny which, I guess, makes the advertisers happy that I notice them. I really can't see why anyone would mind unless they are fronting the costs to run this 'free' site which right now doesn't appear to be happening.

John..

ronsmith · « **Reply #61 on:** June 07, 2006, 05:55:16 PM »

Dan, its your site. I say go for the ads. If the users out there dont like it they should throw out the tv, radio. computer, newspaper and put in earplugs and wear blinders. Your info is invaluable! Thank you for taking YOUR TIME to share with the rest of us mechanically-challenged people your FREE engineering skills. Go for it!

asheets · « **Reply #62 on:** June 08, 2006, 02:22:22 PM »

May I ask who you are hosting with right now, and how much it costs? I was assuming a local (Ft. Collins) outfit like Front Range Internet, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm in the business, so I might be able to find you some cheaper tier-1 hosting...

Dave B · « **Reply #63 on:** June 08, 2006, 11:53:41 PM »

Dan,

You use tools everyday. You have created the most powerful advertising tool there is with this forum. Advertise and sell your own exclusive products to this incredibly large targeted market. It's no wonder Google wants to piggy back on your very respected hard earned customer base. Take off the clutter before it de-personalizes this resource and the very reason we tune in. If it's about the money you have no worries, you're sitting on it. Dave B.

wind4Reg · « **Reply #64 on:** June 09, 2006, 08:06:05 PM »

Hi DanB, it wouldn't bother me if you put ads of dancing poodles on this site, I am going to come and read the posts most every day anyway. You have been providing an awesome forum and you should be compensated, I don't think anyone would expect you to pay for this site out of your own pocket. If ads help you out go for it.

wind4Reg

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Author Topic: Advertising on fieldlines (Read 795 times)