Author Topic: 100/100/100 VAWT challenge (Read 892 times)

Volvo farmer · « **on:** October 24, 2007, 12:13:54 AM »

Here it is. The October '07 VAWT challenge from the farmer of Volvos.

Rules: 100 watts into batteries (12, 24,48V) @ wind less than 20 mph. the turbine must survive the elements and the wind, loaded, for 100 days. Homebrew only may apply, no commercial turbines accepted. Prize is $100 out of my own pocket. Must be vertical axis turbine. THERE IS NO SIZE LIMIT!

Only caveat is I need an outside observer to observe amps and volts so I don't get fleeced. If he can keep the hat on his head while measuring, I'll concede to 20 MPH winds.

I'd gladly pay to see this thing achieved. Sort of like the prize to get into space we've seen recently. I'm good for the c-note, ask DanB. Anyone want to add to the prize? this could get interesting!

healerenergy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2007, 12:58:16 AM »

I am not familiar with the October VAWT challenge and would like more info on it please.

When does it start?

When does it end?

Is there build time before this starts?

100 watt over what time frame.

hiker · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:14:38 AM »

heres some free plans..

http://www.picoturbine.com/projectlist.htm

DamonHD · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:24:25 AM »

You want to get the VAWT into space too? B^>

jacquesm · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:09:17 AM »

ok ,volvofarmer I'll add to the prize, $100 in the pot from me, and if you exceed 500 Watts for more than 1 minute another $100...

And for those that weren't here at the time I'd like to remind you of another prize that http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/9/19/143433/440 still hasn't been claimed...

Though I'd have to change the location because I've moved since then but otherwise the conditions are still the same.

Stonebrain · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:12:56 AM »

This is really a cool proposition.

For building a rotor I need a few months.

I'm only not in building a decent alternator,a low rpm alternator is not what I'm after at the moment.I think this will be to expensive anyway.Can I participate if I can prove output without building an alt.Just with the dynamometer method?

Finding a person who can certificate the results and is thrusted by you might be a problem too.

cheers,

stonebrain

disaray1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:56:37 AM »

I'd like to enter the contest and also raise the pot, but first, clarification on rules; Are you saying that it must produce (at least) 100w continuously for 100 days, or just verified 100w instantanious once per day?

I live in a low wind area. Some rare days 5-10mph, and more often 2-4mph and not constant at all. It may take years to come up with 100 "good" wind days. See where I'm going? At what point and who will determine a winner?

I'll add another $100 to the kitty "if" the whole thing is made from either found scrap or landfill bound material- all of it. Rotor, wire, magnets, bearings/hubs. Only thing that can be bought is hardware- nuts, bolts, washers and screws. Use your imagination. Wire can come from crt monitors, microwave transformers, or induction motor"unwinds". Magnets from hard drives, microwaves, old speakers etc. I'll make an exception for stator potting material, which can be purchased.

Expect cheating. This is a contest with prize money. AND there are engineers involved. :-)

David

DanB · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2007, 07:15:51 AM »

I suppose Ed (windstuffnow) must be exempt... he's actually achieved this I think.

richhagen · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:37:25 AM »

Jeepers, it would be like getting re-imbersed to build the thing. Not meaning to sound like a lawyer, but you would need to clarify and nail down the exact rules, start date, ect, or you'll have 20 people claiming they were first and wanting the prize money though. If its retroactive, Ed and others may claim the prize. Rich

If the battery charging isn't clear, there's some folks in Iran whos ancestors built this that might put in a claim. ;-)

All in fun, Rich

vawtman · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:59:01 AM »

The contest should be 2kw+

That would be more of a challenge.

jacquesm · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:16:30 AM »

I agree, actually you'd probably qualify for the prize:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/8/25/20519/7542

I think the 100 watt for 100 days is challenge enough, especially if you consider that to charge the batts you're going to need quite a bit of RPM.

fcfcfc · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2007, 12:25:27 PM »

Cute....

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:32:36 PM »

Sorry about the lack of clarity.

The contest starts today and expires January 1 2008. If you've got something up and running by then, you qualify and the 100 days can start anytime before January 1.

I'd like to disqualify Ed or anyone else who has built one already if it doesn't hurt their feelings.

100W instantaneous, though I'd like to see it sustained for a short period of time, perhaps five minutes? If the wind doesn't blow for ninety days, it doesn't have to make any power on those days. It has to be set up in the weather and still be operable at the end of 100 days.

Pictures and or video will be needed to claim the prize, I get to pick the outside observer.

Slingshot · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:49:04 PM »

If the wind isn't cooperative while the observer is available, can the VAWT be put on a truck and run down the road (average of 2-way pass to minimize breeze effect) at 19 MPH?

windstuffnow · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:00:55 PM »

Wow... didn't even get started and already I've been disqualified... guess I'll find a corner in my shop to sit an cry for awhile...

All kidding aside, sounds like a fun challenge! I certainly wish all you VAWT builders out there lots of luck. It will be interesting to see some of the machines that come from it. 100 watts is actually pretty simple to accomplish from a VAWT, the biggest challenge I see is the alternator.

Good luck to all and most of all have fun building it!

.

vawtman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2007, 03:09:03 PM »

Hi Ed

Ive been thinking of an idea for little vawts or hawts that charge batteries.

What if you took a small motor(1/2hp) with 36 slots and did this,

Rotor leave stock but drill in many holes for small neo rods in the cage bars and set it up for 12pl.

Stator remove the windings(some motors arent varnished)and rewind for 12pl.Maybe able to use the stripped wire if carefull.

You could direct drive it and without the machining.

Little bitty neos are cheap.

Thoughts.

wdyasq · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2007, 04:58:05 PM »

Editor - Is this what one calls thread hijacking?

Just curious,

Ron

richhagen · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:01:49 PM »

Actually Ed, you've already won, in a way, because you have built funtional machines along these lines, which I recall being an interesting read. Rich

Mary B · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:02:17 PM »

Wish I had the time and the extra $$$ to do this. Just went through a week of 25mph+ winds :-)

TomW · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:03:41 PM »

Yes.

Death or just a beating is the question?

T

windstuffnow · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:13:55 PM »

I have one flying that does around 140 watts in a 20mph wind. I wouldn't have enter'd it anyway, I'm more interested in everyone elses machines. I get more enjoyment watching the creativity than trying to compete.

.

vawtman · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:28:46 PM »

Can i have my last words before i die?

CmeBREW · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:41:52 PM »

ED: It's EASY to be MODEST when you've ALREADY won!!! (He,he)

YOU may think it's easy, but I don't think its easy to get 100 watts at 20mph! I doubt now mine latest will do it. I really believe it WILL hit 100 at some point, I just hope it don't take off like a rocket and land somewhere in Texas when it finally does!.

Yes, I think this contest is a good interesting idea, and I hope many will partisapate. But I really think we all need more time.

The rules are still not perfectly defined. Can someone simply do a COPY of the LENZ2 or simply make a LENZ2 with bigger blades?? I wonder if that should be allowed since everyone knows you've already accomplished it.

Making a design that can withstand the INSAIN weather is the most difficult thing I think. Perhaps everyone here should pick the winner. I like it!

powerbuoy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2007, 07:58:00 PM »

Volvo:

What will you do in case there might be 50 people showing up with working designs ...

You must have deep pockets :-)

Powerbuoy

gizmo · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:50:40 PM »

I dont understand this, is there a point. Why on earth is Ed not allowed in the race. Its like someone is trying to say the VAWT's are no good for making power, and to prove it we are having a competition. Only thing is the people who have proven VAWT's do make power are not allowed to play!

I say anyone should be able to play. If Ed or anyone can fire up a old VAWT that makes 100 watts then they are the winner. I've seen a big 4 layer oil drum windmill

driving a truck alternator, its making over 100 watts! Can he claim the prize.

Need to define the rules, frontal area should be a consideration, as what you are trying to say is a VAWT cant make the power of a HAWT of the same size.

Otherwise some people are going to loose their hard earned money.

Glenn

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:07:57 PM »

Whoops.

Uh my intention was only to be out a hundred bucks, and maybe not even that so I guess it's a race. First one to make 100W instantaneous and last 100 days wins.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:24:42 PM »

Okay, would you be happy if I gave Ed $100 for already winning, and then give $100 to the next guy who can do it? Maybe I should have changed it to 200W so that he can compete too?

Yes, the oil drum guy can claim the prize. Have him post in this forum with pictures and give me his location so I can find somebody to go look at it to verify and if it's still up and running in January, I'll pay him.

To be honest, I bet I worked less hard at earning this $100 than someone is going to work to earn it.

Here's my point... if you really don't understand it. If I had posted a challenge to make 600W in a 20MPH wind with a HAWT, There'd be a dozen guys all over it, because it's being done, every day, in scores of locations all over the world. I'm challenging people to make 1/6 that amount of power with a VAWT, because I think it is a inherently inefficient way to make power, and 100W ain't easy to make. I've heard of exactly one guy doing it here.

You can cry about my rules or you can get to work building your turbine. Make your own contest if you don't like mine.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:26:30 PM »

Sure, I'll accept that.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #28 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:30:17 PM »

No vaporware allowed. Coils, magnets, swept area, volts, amps, watts... all allowed. If nobody wins in the timeframe, I'll likely extend the deadline.

gizmo · « **Reply #29 on:** October 10, 2007, 10:05:16 PM »

Oh dont get me wrong, I do like the idea, but just want to see the rules better defined. Maybe a bet of $100 is asking for trouble, why not just a contest to see who gets the best results for said frontal area. Restricting frontal area will mean only the most efficient of VAWT's stand a chance. There are a lot of VAWT's out there with no alternator attached, it will be good to see these projects finished and the real figures to come through. 100 watts is a good size, its bigger than "toy" size and means the builder needs to overcome the VAWT problems like bearings and wobble for the thing to stay together.

A F&P will be a good alternator if you can get one, I built a small Lenz2 on a F&P and it started charging into 12 volts at only 20 RPM, direct drive.

Glenn

Off grid in Tonopah · « **Reply #30 on:** October 10, 2007, 10:23:01 PM »

Since there seems to be so many variables why not have the contest run thru the year. Threshold to compete is as you laid out. At the end of the year let the board vote on the winning machine. Most votes wins. Judgment attributes could be ease of construction, simplicity of design, most innovative design, use of materials, most common materials, highest efficiency things like that. This way everyone can play, some folks may want to collaborate and form build teams. Kind of like turbine wars. Some build better more efficient generators than others while some have a knack for turbine design. Bottom line is after a year this board should be able to take the best of the workmanship, knowledge and creativity that resides here and put out a dame good turbine design or two. Just my two cents.

Bob

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #31 on:** October 10, 2007, 10:59:29 PM »

I predict there will be NO winner. It's my C-note, it's my challenge. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but either build a turbine and collect the prize, or put up your own money for your own contest, and define the rules as you see fit. Maybe I'll extend the deadline if there is no winner.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough at first but I think its getting narrowed down now. 100W instantaneous, 100 days in the elements, 100 bucks. Pictures and Fieldlines forum posting necessary. First successful entry wins.

I'm about done here in this thread. Thanks to those who pointed out unclear parts of my challenge. If I'm still unclear, I'll post back and try and crystallize terms.

wooferhound · « **Reply #32 on:** October 11, 2007, 01:03:19 AM »

And we need to get the Discovery Channel in on it too . . .

News:

Author Topic: 100/100/100 VAWT challenge (Read 892 times)