Wind vs Electronics

[vawtman]

 Some guys and gals can build great wind turbines but know little on how to control them.

 It seems the electronic guys and gals can build great control circuits but cant or wont build a turbine.

 Just from what ive seen over the last couple years.

 Mark

 

[wooferhound]

The Mechanics vs The Electricians . . .

[oztules]

Well Vawtman,

I can't do either very well, but i'm still havin fun.

.......oztules

[finnsawyer]

If you want an electronics guy to design a controller for an alternator, you need to give him all the pertinent information.  That doesn't happen here.  Everything here seems to be slapdash.  I'm still waiting after two years to find out what you VAWT guys get out from your vertical axis turbines.  To be honest, when I think about it, I draw a blank.  

[Bruce S]

For me it would be more to the side of not allowed. Meaning that the city has laws that keep us from putting up anything big enough to do anything other than light LEDs and small stuff.

 I love rebuilding old cars (prefer diesel) and I like the challenge of getting old computers to be productive again.

Except the city (St.Louis, MO) has laws not allowing the large ones. Good reason of course, really would not like a set of blades exploding all over the mains wires or worse hurting someone.

JMHO

Bruce S

I still feel this forum is the best for those to get together and exchange ideas.

[dinges]

I must not have paid attention then.

I'm surprized by the many skills many have (and need) in order to build and erect their generators. Note I'm talking here about the 'do-ers', not the thinkers/talkers.

Need to know electronics, a bit of aerodynamics, know how to hold a soldering iron without burning yourself, wire up rectifiers, know Ohm's law, know how to weld, saw, file, do mechanical fitting, know how to woodwork, do a bit of structural engineering (foundation of a tower), etc., and all this without losing fingers.

I detect a pattern; quite a few people I got to know in here have common interests, usually in the fields of electronics, mechanics, sailing and flying. Quite a few gun nuts too.

Many names come to mind that are both apt at the mechanical and electrical aspects. People that know how a FET works and how to (ab)use one, but can weld a frame to mount their generator on too. And if they don't know how a FET works, they at least understand what a rectifier is, what it does and how to connect it without letting the majic smoke out.

One has to be a renaissance man ('homo universalis') to succeed in this line of business. Many in here are more generalist than the average person in the street. Most likely due to self-selection. If all you desire is a hot meal and the evening sport's program on the telly, there's likely to be little of interest to be found in Fieldlines.

The small lacks of knowledge or experience (not everyone is the perfect renaissance man) can usually be solved with a little help from a friend. Which is what this board is about, as far as I know.

Just my observations.

[wdyasq]

"Quite a few gun nuts too."

Get yourself shot saying things like that!

Ron

[TomW]

I may own a veritable arsenal but I am NOT any kind of "nut". [multiple eye twitches]

You hear the click too late.

Cheers.

TomW

[cyplesma]

nicely put dinges,

I myself would like to do more in the experimentation, but often find my supply of materials lacking.

I used to have a time issue with a 1.5 to 2 hour drive to work (one way). but lately (few months) I've been able to work from home 3 days a week, so I now have the time, and realize how much in materials I'm lacking.

I also don't have a work shed, what I do is here in my living room (wife is kinda ok with it, since I saved last thanksgiving with a few batteries and an inverter or two).

I'm currently in the process of doing not just RE, but looking into some hydroponics stuff as well. it's been interesting how much re can be used in that "hobby" also.

I had written up a bunch of other stuff earlier for this post but I saved it offline, I wanted to see what others had to share first.

I can say that if there are some folks that need blades made they can put those requests in the classifieds, same with anything electronic or electrical (these two really are different) needed.

 I'm not sure much more organized effort is needed, but the sharing of ideas actually working/failed/or just pipe dreams is what I'm here for.

[Nando]

The problem is quite common and it is in reality: do not invade my realm.

There is, in most cases, the idea that I am building it to show it off and to get some benefit for it.

NO interest in doing a good group design and build on those bases.

This group is not a common benefit group ( like the ants), each does what is best for him/her at that moment and nothing else, most of the time is just experimentation, by trial and error and chisel and hammer.

I can not do Mechanical for several reasons, one is space, the other physical problems.

Nobody takes offers to do something different, like a Torque Pitch Controlled Hub and the idea of designing a good electronic item, like a Heater MPPT controller, getting refusals because I said: we needed to keep it private ---- = immediately I am not interested, is the response.

Not allowed to, even, finish my phrase : ---- and from spreading it until it is properly designed and put together for any to be able to have it working without problems.

Or to have a wind mill capable of High voltage MPPT generation with the proper controller with a Torque Pitch Controller hub that allows high wind velocities operation.

It is a failure in group aims and group non exiting desires, may be because every site is different or the aims are quite different or too limit funds in many or just "I am just having fun" -- it is my playing around instead of chasing women that run faster than me or I am too ugly and they keep me away.

Most ask when they are in trouble, instead of the opposite and too many try to do things the hard way because the math, simple or not, is something that I do not need to tackle -- for what ever reasons.

Most in the group want to get the things (most electronic ) free for the take, even though it is clear that the one that asks can not build some of those circuits.

I get a lot of private requests and many times I have assisted many, and up to now, just 3 persons of more than 80 helped, have finish what they asked and reported the results to me.

Quite a few, ask for help, that may take some time and steps to finish and those steps are not finished -- therefore another into the unfinished folder -- quite clear that what was wanted had to be given finished and "well done".

Some in this group have good capabilities in electronic / electrical or math or mechanical disciplines which see what is may be needed by many, but as well there is not interest in pursuing such projects.

This is my point of view and reality !!

Nando

[Nando]

The problem is quite common and it is in reality: do not invade my realm.

There is, in most cases, the idea that I am building it to show it off and to get some benefit for it.

NO interest in doing a good group design and build on those bases.

This group is not a common benefit group ( like the ants), each does what is best for him/her at that moment and nothing else, most of the time is just experimentation, by trial and error and chisel and hammer.

I can not do Mechanical for several reasons, one is space, the other physical problems.

Nobody takes offers to do something different, like a Torque Pitch Controlled Hub and the idea of designing a good electronic item, like a Heater MPPT controller, getting refusals because I said: we needed to keep it private ---- = immediately I am not interested, is the response.

Not allowed to, even, finish my phrase : ---- and from spreading it until it is properly designed and put together for any to be able to have it working without problems.

Or to have a wind mill capable of High voltage MPPT generation with the proper controller with a Torque Pitch Controller hub that allows high wind velocities operation.

It is a failure in group aims and group non exiting desires, may be because every site is different or the aims are quite different or too limit funds in many or just "I am just having fun" -- it is my playing around instead of chasing women that run faster than me or I am too ugly and they keep me away.

Most ask when they are in trouble, instead of the opposite and too many try to do things the hard way because the math, simple or not, is something that I do not need to tackle -- for what ever reasons.

Most in the group want to get the things (most electronic ) free for the take, even though it is clear that the one that asks can not build some of those circuits.

I get a lot of private requests and many times I have assisted many, and up to now, just 3 persons of more than 80 helped, have finish what they asked and reported the results to me.

Quite a few, ask for help, that may take some time and steps to finish and those steps are not finished -- therefore another into the unfinished folder -- quite clear that what was wanted had to be given finished and "well done".

Some in this group have good capabilities in electronic / electrical or math or mechanical disciplines which see what is may be needed by many, but as well there is not interest in pursuing such projects.

This is my point of view and reality !!

Nando

[whatsnext]

+1 to this as most on this board really don't want any real design help and only want to see completed mills so that they may try to copy them. Not that there is anything wrong with that as it is really in the spirit of the board, practical DIY applications and such. Lot's of things that pass as engineering here are really quite absurd but that's OK because, here, real engineers seem to be held in a bit of disdain.

John....

[cyplesma]

"+1 to this as most on this board really don't want any real design help and only want to see completed mills so that they may try to copy them"

or even parts of this mill and parts of that mill.

"Lot's of things that pass as engineering here are really quite absurd but that's OK because, here, real engineers seem to be held in a bit of disdain."

yeah I can admit guilt to this from time to time. but for me it's not meant in a bad or mean way it's just if I see a formula with more then 4 or 5 operators and there's terms being used that I don't know it's not something I'm interested at this/that point in time. Maybe later I'll either look that stuff up, or if I have problems finding through the search, I'll ask.

but there all levels of interests and skills here and to try to organize a way of labeling individuals that tends to keep that person from growing if they chose.

I'm a big fan with what I have / haven't seen on this board and hope it continues the way it has.

[Bruce S]

Nando;

   I will agree on most points.

Way back when I offered the NiCd battery packs for free (just pay for shipping) I hardly got a bite.

I would go into the depths of my learning but not what it's about.

My reasoning for staying with this forum as opposed to others. Actually I read and stayed with builditsolar.com long before I knew of this site..

When I offer help it is given without the need for validation of anything.

I offer my knowledge for free , if the receipent uses it great! of not no big loss to me.

I have been luck enough to make friends here as well which means more to me than money. I have had the great fortune to meet with Pepa and hope to have time in the near future to travel to meet others...

Your thoughts on those that come looking for the quick and easy answers without doing their homework are usually fretted out pretty quick. Even those that try in the Newbies section get reemed at times.

I still see the site evolving into different forks, like it or not , of purists and those like myself that like to do stuff just I want to try. I've been told many an time that it won't work only to be proven otherwise.

Then there are those who come here seeking help because they are truly trying to  learn, that's where this site shines, for they get help from all corners of the globe, from all levels of professional advice.

However also, unlike ants we humans, like to be proud of what we can do and that's why we keep pushing ourselves to get better.

Ants don't care they just do as they are programmed to do. People care...

Cheers

Bruce S

 

[jimjjnn]

GUN NUTS???

We are collectors, target shooters, hunters and generally great people )

[vawtman]

Oz

 Dont put yourself down i know you have all the tules to build a great turbine.

 Wish i had half your electronics know how.

 I think fun and frustration are the same thing.

[Phil Timmons]

hmmm,

I see a lot of discussing going on in this thread -- but I am not so sure I follow most of it, or even the starting concept . . . .   wind VS electronics?  Like they are somehow opposed?  They are different dimensions!  No real conflict between them, unless somebody has some personal issues looking for a venue, no?

The way it is in the real world, too.  Go to school and you can come out with an Electrical Engineering degree, or Mechanical Engineering degree, but you do not see much ElectroMechanical Engineering degrees, do you?  Not that one could not, but somewhere some specialization has to occur for any real advances.

But everyone can work well together if they choose.  On any typical real world project, I work with Civil, Software and/or Mechanical guys (which I usually call -- "the lesser Engineering endeavors" -- me being a typical arrogant EE jackass and all.

Maybe some of you all are taking yourselves a little too serious?  Dunno.  Life is a temporary condition, you know.  Maybe I just do not see what anyone has disappointed expectations over?  

To me this place is like an online home-brew computer club . . . seems somethings do come out of those?  e.g. Apple Computers, for example.  A place to ponder things over, give and take some "peer review."  Bring some stuff for show-and-tell.  It tends to do all that fairly well, doesn't it?  

And if someone wants to get a project going -- get out front and lead it.  But I gotta say leadership is hard work.  Ever watch the lead duck on a migration formation?  Always having to quack the way to go, breaking wind ( ) on everyone else.  So get out there and start flapping.  Ain't going nowhere sitting in the pond quacking.

And besides a leader who is in front is much easier to stab in the back.  

[RogerAS]

Tom and all,

Yeah, I'm one of them there "gun nuts" too. I happen to be quite proud of this.

I have a CETME assault rifle, which is currently leaning against my nightstand. This semi automatic rifle is chambered for the 308 Winchester (it ain't no whimpy 223. 2' thick oak trees are not defendable positions against this rifle). It has 2 20 round magazines taped back to back. I have 2 canisters of millitary ball ammo with 640 rounds in each for said rifle. On top of the same nightstand is the Beretta FS92 in 9mm. That also has the extended cap magazine, ported barrel, trigger work and a feed ramp tuning. In this handgun I have "powRball" P+ ammo, and a pile more waiting.

The point is I trust these weapons will serve me much better than any law enforcement entity could ever hope to. I have practiced extensively with both weapons and feel quite confident that I could use them with deadly effect against a numerically superior force. A call to 911 for immediate help will arrive no sooner than 30 minutes too late.

I do not seek approval or understanding of my RIGHT to have such weapons. I could care less if I am judged to be a "gun nut" by anyone too weak of character to assume personal responsibilty for the safty of their family (or chooses to reside where this RIGHT is not a given). At the end of the day me and mine will be survivors. Any Meth Monkey, or other idiot, that chooses to end his or her life by intrusion into my world can do so at any time. I do not invite such action, but neither do I shiver like a child at the thought of terminating a deadly threat.

There's another eason I keep such weapons at the ready. The picture below was taken one week ago. This is the result of a 400+LB black bear that we had seen the day before. That bird feeder is less than 15 feet from my front door, and the post is solid steel. That night we slept with only the screen door between us and the world. Look up black bear attacks and tell me I'm a nut for having my guns. Luckily for HIM (assumed male as there were no cubs) he hasn't been back.

Sorry for the length of this posting, but someone needed to say this.

[dinges]

You have a reason to be proud. I visited your site (though I see that the link has disappeared ?) and was impressed by what I saw.

To me, 'gun nut' is a term of endearment.

[Phil Timmons]

wellll . . . it is a good thing some folks live alone, way out in the woods.

Just razzing you, Roger.  Had to shoot some feral dogs just a couple days ago, myself -- including a big pitt bull -- that broke into my shop/warehouse, and were trying to knock down the door into our house.  Guess they were trying to kill the cats or something.  And this in the city (Dallas).  

But while we are hi-jacking other folks' topics -- what I really wanted to ask you was -- I saw "wildblue" in your email, and wanted to ask what you thought of them -- since I guess you are a customer and all.  I have been thinking about using their stuff.

[RogerAS]

Phil,

Oh God, don't go down the WildBlue(yonder) road! If I had ANY other choice I'd take it in a heartbeat. I've had nothing but trouble. Just today I finally got email sent Dec 12, 06!!!

If I could get EDVO or anything else I'd get it.

Yep, guns are the evil devices of the truely free!

:-)

[RogerAS]

Dinges,

I changed my email link because I felt it was unethical to drive traffic to that site by my actions here. Gobbler Guns is still going well. Actually I'm starting a complete makeover this weekend. Arrrggggghhhhhh, working from home sucks sometimes. Work, no matter where, sucks sometimes. :-)

Take care.

[SparWeb]

Ron,

I thought you would have shot that lame horse by now!

[ghurd]

Peter,

I know the difference between a 9x17, 9X18, 9X19, 9X21, 9Mak, 9Para, .380ACP, 9MMshort, 9long, 9mag, 9Destroyer... Probably more 9MM.  I do know I own all but 2 I listed.

RE is fun too.  Smoke, loud noises, flames, sparks, unique smells, mass leaving it's former position at a high velocity, math, wind, chemistry...

TSR = BC, from a slightly different, slightly skewed perspective.

Roger,

I always liked the 7.62x51 better than the .308Win, and I like the FAL more than the G3.

The 7.62x54 is honestly under rated.

(let them figure that out)

Mark,

Yes. So what?

The guy who puts tires on my cars is not the guy who would change the pistons.

Neither would be the best painter.

Maybe the the best roofer shouldn't fix the pipes?

Maybe the painter is better at pipes than the roofer?

Maybe the painter is better at pistons than the tire dude?

Maybe none of them can build a decent windmill or play the guitar?

Maybe the mandolin player has a "Windmill" revelation?

I do remember noted members switching sides, at least for a short time.

Their contributions are still very relevant, and certainly discussed in the last week.

BTW, Fun topic.

G-

[hiker]

grandson son says 10-4 on that.........packin a load.

[BT Humble]

What's all this talk about gum nuts?  I mean, sure everyone likes trees, but really! ;-)

http://www.budgieworld.net/gum_nuts.htm

BTH

[BT Humble]

And people think that AUSTRALIA is a dangerous place!  All we've got are lots of venomous creatures.  

Oh, and the sharks.  

And the crocodiles.  

And best not to mention the drop bears.

BTH

[vawtman]

Finsawyer

 It should'nt be too much longer.

 Glad you have an interest in these creatures.

 Why dont you work on your alt while your waiting?

 Mark

[finnsawyer]

I am working on it.  I'm still looking for a well documented three phase alternator that someone has built using round half inch or three quarter inch magnets that I can have my design go head to head with.  Actually, I have concluded that the only way would be to do both myself.  My latest thinking is that to do a really valid test would be to power both alternators off of the same rotor and same stator.  The three phase would be in board toward of the center of my design.  Since both would have the same number of magnets but my design requires a greater number of coils and a larger rotor diameter, it should be doable.  Going radially we would find the same polarity magnets to avoid flux interference between the alternators.  The reason for this is to eliminate differences due to rotor thickness, type of iron and so on, as well as differences in workmanship.  It might also shed some light on this vibration issue.  One could obviously test one alternator at a time.  But right now I'm trying to catch up to my bills.  

[commanda]

but you do not see much ElectroMechanical Engineering degrees, do you?

It's called MechaTronics. I'm on my second wannabe undergraduate working casual as technical assistant. Last one finished his degree and moved on. Course is offered here by both Sydney Uni and Uni of New South Wales.

Amanda

[oztules]

Having seen some of your work, I think they should just sign the papers and move you along (tic)

Nice to see you posting again Commanda

.........oztules

[domwild]

Commanda,

Good to hear from you again. Always enjoyed reading your contributions.

Regards,

[finnsawyer]

Maybe it should be machinists versus electricians.  I've torn down various gas and diesel engines in my time for various reasons, coaxed cranky farm equipment to keep working (still doing that), adapted a wrecker winch to my John Deere 350 crawler for skidding logs, spent a week upgrading the sawmill engine to 24 horse power, and added a debarker to the sawmill (gee, all the holes were gone - imagine that).  So, I guess that makes me a mechanic (as well as that electrical guy), but I'm not a machinist.