Author Topic: Homepower magazine  (Read 830 times)

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Jrmobb

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Homepower magazine
« on: December 25, 2008, 09:12:06 AM »
I was just thinking how cool would it be if The Dans or someone put out a magazine like even once every 6 months with articles and pics on the projects they have worked on. Maybe even have people submit pics and articles about there projects they have made or worked on. It could be anything from simple harbor freight setup's to a new mill added to a house. Id pay to get something like that in the mail(or pdf). Just thought it would be a cool idea. what do you guys think? Just kind of a summary of the cool things made or created over the last 6 months.


Not trying to suggest any extra burden on someone if its just not cost effective vs work involved.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 09:12:06 AM by (unknown) »

Sly

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2008, 07:38:21 AM »
Hi,


I think that would be a great idea but as you indicated cost effective vs work involved might be the show stopper. But I would certainly subscribe if such a magazine was available. It could be just black ink on white paper stapled together or one step further available in electronic format for those who have hi speed internet. This would make it easier to assemble, keep costs down and maybe make it financially viable.


I have/still subscribe to the Homepower magazine but find it is going more and more towards the "Look at all the nice stuff I can buy off the shelf and don't have to build because I have lots of cash" They just don't get it..


Here are a few good reasons why I personally built my wind turbine:



  1. Funds are limited
  2. I like to understand my gear
  3. Good for the ego...
  4. Gives me a reason to go out in the shop for quality time and when somebody stops by: drink beer and get the stories going......


Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.


sly

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 07:38:21 AM by Sly »

TomW

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2008, 08:26:42 AM »
Sly;




I have/still subscribe to the Homepower magazine but find it is going more and more towards the "Look at all the nice stuff I can buy off the shelf and don't have to build because I have lots of cash" They just don't get it..



Definitely true on the current trend of that particular "RE" dead tree rag to be mostly pimping for sellers and installers. I dropped my sub to it when I realized it had gone the route of most D.I.Y publications becoming full of ads and lacking the true hands on stuff that made it popular.Exactly why I hope they keep it interactive online here.


That doesn't even include the carbon footprint, energy expenditure, etc inherent in killing and collecting trees for pulp for paper, transportation of said physical object before and after its printed. Compared to shoving some 100% recycled electrons through a cable it is a no brainer why so much info is online and not shipped around on paper.


Just some opinions I hold.


Maybe they will do it since they wrote a book and may see it as viable revenue stream.


Tom

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 08:26:42 AM by TomW »

wdyasq

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2008, 11:27:19 AM »
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html


The 'owner' is a personal friend of mine. He stated the time it took to edit stories just for correct English took all of his spare time. When he realized it would never have a reliable income stream, he closed the project down.


I think there are probably several similar 'projects' out there. I'm not sure who would advertise in such a magazine. Local shops, where you find a lot of the parts, will not and can not afford 'national advertising expense'. National suppliers want folks with money and large orders.


There are a handful of sites dealing with small, homebuilt power and systems. Fieldlines is among the best of those sites, IMO.


Why would someone buy articles in print when they probably followed them in detail a few months earlier on a website?


Ron

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 11:27:19 AM by wdyasq »
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bob g

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2008, 12:37:56 PM »
sadly homepower as well as other magazines seem to have gone to promoting

the advertizers, and little of any content that relates to the common man

and homebuilt projects.


same thing happened years ago with popular mechanics and popular science, in my opinion.


hard for me to want to buy a single issue when 90% of it is advertizing and the remaining 10% is pimping for those advertizers.


i quit the homepower magazine a couple years back when they featured a megamillion dollar offgrid home in northern california that had over 100grand in the solar/genset/battery system to run the place. after reading the article one was left feeling that there is no way to survive without that system as a minimum!


of course i knew better, but i did wonder how many folks that were just beginning to think about alternate energy got swamped at the prospect before they ever got a start.


i pick up one about twice a year, just out of curiosity, and find nothing has changed, just a bunch of flashy ad copy, and a few articles with every known bell and whistle that is current on the market as being part of the system.


i could go on, but i am really only preaching to the choir :)


bob g

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 12:37:56 PM by bob g »
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
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ruddycrazy

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2008, 02:45:51 PM »
This idea of a otherpower magazine is a great thought :), however as Ron has pointed out the work involved would be a huge task. From my personal perspective I'd love to do an article on converting 3 phase machinery to work off RE, do a full detailed story on my 2hp conversion, etc.


 I reckon this discussion should be thrashed out in IRC to see if it holds any water....


Cheers Bryan :)

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 02:45:51 PM by ruddycrazy »

scoraigwind

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2008, 11:59:16 PM »
I have this reply from Ian Woofenden, an editor for Homepower magazine.  Ian has lived off-grid in the woods for decades, and he also hosts my 'How to build a wind generator' workshops in Washington State.


Ian says:


Hi All,


Hugh forwarded a link to this conversation.


Home Power did have its roots in homebrew renewable energy -- heck, the whole industry had its roots there. But the industry has moved well beyond that.


Our goal is to mainstream renewables, and most people do not have the skills and interests that the great fieldlines homebrewers have. Most people in North America will buy, not build their RE systems.


So Home Power's focus has shifted with the shift in the market. We still love the idea of homebrew, but it's a small fraction of the market for RE ideas and products.


I don't see homebrew and manufactured goods as competitors. They reflect different audiences, different abilities, and different needs. We need both.


I'd also suggest rethinking the anger about McMansions with PV systems, and about advertisers.


While I'm a strong advocate of modest homes and energy efficiency, there are mansions in the world, and I'm pleased that some more enlightened mansion owners are using RE instead of fossil fuels and nukes. Sure, I'd like them to live more modestly, but they actually own their lives -- I don't -- and I believe they should run them, as you and I think we should run our own lives. When wealthy people choose RE, they actually have the potential to move the industry forward more rapidly, since they have more exposure and influence. Let's count the blessings. I hope more wealthy people will choose RE.


Advertising is how companies that make products promote what they have. Without advertising, we wouldn't have PV, wind turbine, inverter, and battery companies. When they build successful products and companies, we have a successful industry, which means more RE. Home Power is supported partly by advertising. That doesn't mean we are run by it. I'm on the editorial side, and it's quite rare that advertising issues affect me.


Those who suggest that Home Power should cover more homebrew, or that a new magazine should do it, should consider what they are suggesting. Are they prepared to pay for a magazine that serves this small niche? Are they prepared to risk their own money on such a venture?


It's easy to criticize others. It's harder is to do something positive yourself. Home Power has been doing great work at promoting renewables for more than 20 years. If we hadn't been, the industry might not be where it is today. There's space for other publications and interests, but I'd encourage you not to view it as a zero sum game or a us vs. them. Do what you love and believe in, and leave others to do the same.


Regards,


Ian

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 11:59:16 PM by scoraigwind »
Hugh Piggott scoraigwind.co.uk

Jrmobb

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2008, 02:29:26 AM »
Yea that message from the editor is real and fake.I know they need to go the direction for marketing and money but I still see no reason why they cant throw in a few pages in the end or have one article an issue on a homebrew system. I went ahead and subscribed again this year since i haven't read one in year but figured it was worth the 20 bucks considering one off the shelf is like $5-$7 for one.


 Yea IRC is a good idea. It would be interesting to see what we could come up with, if we throw some ideas around. It would just be nice to have everything put together. Kinda like a years highlight's mag

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 02:29:26 AM by jrmobb »

oztules

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2008, 03:41:10 AM »
Sensible commentary from Ian.


There are only so many ways to skin a cat, and at the end of the day, even fieldlines has begun to see the end of innovation. In the beginning, all kinds of things were tried and some succeeded and some failed, but lots were tried, and much fun was had.


Even the Dans seem to have come to the end of the innovation road. The axial has become a mature device, and there seems to be little more to learn about it. All the add-ons are now mature and understood, and in truth a good faq and how too section would probably serve as well or better than the forum proper..... but his would spell the end of a community.


So we still show each other what we have done, and still try to improve the product...... but in truth it is almost at a standstill.


With this in mind, it is no wonder that "grass roots" magazines have had to look further afield to keep any interest in their publications.... there is only so many ways to present the same thing.... they need new things.


It is clear that the biggest audience is the buying user, not the making user, so money dictates where they go.


I have no doubt that any new innovation that comes up from out in the backyards will get fair/excited/critical coverage in the big publications, as they still like a feel good story as well as the next man.... but they are getting very scarce.


Keep on looking for innovative and interesting stories from the boonies Ian, but I expect that new ones will be hard to find.


.............oztules

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 03:41:10 AM by oztules »
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TomW

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2008, 06:43:09 AM »
Ian;


Well said.


I "understand" why, I guess I just don't like it therefore I don't buy it. Frankly, I used to read and / or subscribe to literally dozens of publications from popular mechanics and electronics types to survivalists publications, audiophile magazines, reloading newsletters anything with hands on in it. Sadly, most are gone today. Killed by their very popularity. Oh, they pushed the envelope and got many involved but eventually every one of them became a victim of its' own popularity.


Ian; I apologize if I was harsh. I fear you are in a crippled and terminally ill industry [print media].


I guess I never accepted that some of us old hippies went on to be corporate entities and corporations have one main goal of making money. Selling ads is how the media does that. I think you probably do what you must to survive and a $50 ad from Joes Magnet Emporium can't compete with the $5000 ad from Bergey and a bonded installer. Reality.


Anyway glad we all made it this far and good luck to all.


Tom

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 06:43:09 AM by TomW »

bob g

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2008, 09:56:26 AM »
ok,, i will take back half the ugly things i was thinking  :)


however,,


seems to me like there ought to be not only room in the magazine, but more of

an effort to showcase at least one good diy project each issue.


the diy'er is where your roots are, and sadly i am one diy'er that is a bit grouchy

about that segment being taken over by the advertizers.


i got another problem, and maybe this is as good a place as any to vent it.


that being the industry going toward pretty little lights to illustrate what is happening,,, it goes something like this.


"the green light is on, therefore all is well"  oh really?


another issue i have is the move toward technology just for the sake of selling something,, where once it was accepted that one really needed a temp compensated hydrometer to maintain his batteries,, now we never hear about that,, now all we see is the latest XYZ brand battery monitor with its attending green lights.


i dunno,, i guess it is really difficult for me to just take a manufactures word for it, just believe it and go ahead and buy it.


especially comeing from an industry that still after all these years cannot figure out how to set testing standards using real world numbers such as 12mpg windspeed instead of 28, 40 or a hurricane. or rating solar panels in a supernova floodlamp to get max output and then report based on that (although the solar folks are getting better) and the list goes on.


just seems to leave folks like me a bit discouraged and put off i guess.


bob g

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 09:56:26 AM by bob g »
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

Madscientist267

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2008, 10:49:50 AM »
I agree with you to no end on this one. Being in the computer world, I've been exposed to all of those cryptic messages that pop up on the screen that tell you 'what is wrong'.


Too bad that 99% of the time, the message's contents have absolutely nothing to do with what is actually happening, since nobody bothered to run the program through its paces and see it fail due to multiple causes.


If they can't get it right in a full out computer, there's no way manufacturers are testing every possible scenario on 'pea-brained' equipment. As you pointed out, there is much assumption going on - there isn't a replacement for actually sampling the electrolyte in each cell to make sure all is well, something that just doesn't happen (yet?) with automatic equipment.


I've learned to never trust 'automatic' equipment to the fullest, and have been burned just about every time I get a bit lax with this rule.


Steve

 

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 10:49:50 AM by Madscientist267 »
The size of the project matters not.
How much magic smoke it contains does !

bob g

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2008, 11:47:09 AM »
Steve:


this is my biggest irritation with the whole industry


i am not going to single out a particular manufacture because they all do

it to some extent or another.


for instance,,


a popular mppt controller supposedly measures input volts and output volts

and depending on who you want to believe they measure either the input amps

or the output amps, but not both,,, and then they use the results to compute the

output wattage???


but the green light is on!!! so therefore my batteries should be fully charged, and doing well!!


personally i think we have a very long ways to go, before the industry is big enough so that government regulators make the manufactures actually produce what they claim.


it is only fair to state however that there are good companies out there making good products, and making reasonable claims, standing behind their products and all that,,, and good on them.  but


how the heck are they to compete in an industry that allows all sorts of claims to stand?


i don't have any answers, but i do know i am not the only one that doesn't like what is going on.


bob g

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 11:47:09 AM by bob g »
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

jonas302

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2008, 05:20:02 PM »
The only thing milionare mansions do is make soler panel producers think its ok to be over priced I do think its odd that out of the 10000 members here the editors of the magizine don't read or post here scouting for quality stories


 

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 05:20:02 PM by jonas302 »

ianwoof

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Re: Home Power magazine
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2008, 06:09:54 PM »


Thanks to Hugh for posting my message, and to y'all for responding and proving that I can't resist a good discussion. i appreciate the positive words and constructive criticism.


Several points:



  • We have an active digital edition which is very popular. We are hardly in dying mode, either print or digital. Our reader base continues to grow, and our distribution on newsstands is perhaps the most surprising aspect.
  • As publisher Richard Perez says, we cover "pie on the plate" -- proven technology that you can implement today. So we are not Pop Sci or Mech that covers concepts and dreams.
  • Small ads don't compete with large ads. We take both, and need both.
  • Our marketing surveys have not shown a strong enough interest in DIY to justify an article per issue. My personal preference would lean toward more, but it's not my decision.
  • Green/Yellow/Red for battery SOC is a lot better than nothing! And for many people (not the fieldlines crowd), it is actually better than numbers, since most people don't know what the numbers mean. I agree with the comments questioning the accuracy of battery monitors -- some take geeks to program...
  • More millionaires buying PVs will bring the price down...
  • We are always open to story proposals. See http://www.homepower.com/authorguidelines and let me know if you have questions.


Regards,


Ian

ian.woofenden@homepower.com

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 06:09:54 PM by ianwoof »

wdyasq

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Re: Home Power magazine
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 06:28:38 PM »
Ian,


I appreciate your comments and agree the more panels produced, the lower the cost should become.


Perhaps if the suppliers of equipment knew more information was desired, it could be added or at least an extra cost option. If there were the provisions for outside instrumentation and output from a chip that would leave the option for one to write an interface.


One of my great peeves with the RE industry is the over-rating of many devices. I would like to see on stories the author or editor having a statement similar to, "Swept area of X, rated power is 173% of Betz limit". (or whatever the standard for the method is.)


However, we can all find something wrong with another's project......


Good job,


Ron

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 06:28:38 PM by wdyasq »
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spinningmagnets

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Re: Home Power magazine
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 06:55:52 PM »
Dear Ian, It seems the majority of "Homepower" magazine articles have been taken over by large expensive-per-Watt plug-and-play components. Not a criticism, just an observation to agree with what others have said.


I most enjoy the rare DIY articles, and much enjoyed the recent highlight of Gary's "builditsolar" home with its low cost improvements.


To be fair to you Ian, here are two places I referenced Homepower


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/6/22/191210/965

Primitive low-cost low-head Micro-hydro in Thailand


http://www.fieldlines.com/comments/2008/6/25/164450/707/12#12

de-humidifying desiccant indoor decorative waterfall


PS I will be getting the Dans Otherpower book for my birthday!

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 06:55:52 PM by spinningmagnets »

windstuffnow

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2008, 07:13:00 PM »
ReNewable energys, for most, is a whole new concept of living and not very well known.  Big oil and electric companies are making sure the word doesn't get out quickly or on a massive scale.   The government isn't likely to promote it either since Big oil makes nice "donations" to circumvent any decisions to move in that direction.  They want us to be reliant on them and spend lots of money to make it so.  If it were in their best interest that it become a reality, it would be done.  Energy abundance isn't in their plan.  Scarcity is their profits.  


The only way it will get done is if we do it ourselves.   People have the power to make it happen, but the people are asleep.   We've become so dependant on them for everything ( by design ) that we can't survive without them.  Our food is imported so we don't grow it anymore, our electric is provided we just pay the bill.. on and on we go, moving closer and closer to socialism.  


Once people wake up and realize that all they do for us - we can do ( once again ) for ourselves then we'll realize we don't need them.( that scares them ).   We sit back and wait for polititions to solve problems but they can't solve them.   All polititions do is create laws, they don't solve problems.  If someone does something wrong they create a law saying you can't do that - instead of looking at the root problem and solving it.  


Think about Tidal generation for a moment... seems like a new concept everyone's thinking about.  It's not new and was one of JFK's dreams to becomming "oil free".   They've been built and in operation since the 50's ( France, Russia and elsewhere ).   They work very well indeed, we would have no need for nuke plants, coal, or dams.   So once again, if it had a direct benifit for them it would be done, since it only benifits the people we wait.   Renewable energies as a function to provide power for individuals is not in their best interest.  So instead of creating a clean energy plan they will use dirty fuels and create a "carbon Tax" to build Co2 scrubbers and store it in caverns... that should help.  Or the "BTU" tax that clinton brought up years ago that didn't make it into bill.


There are many technologies that are simply discarded or supressed by big money as it would effect their "profits" which certainly can't happen.


In ending my rant, I think Homepower, otherpower, ScoraigWind and many others are doing a fantastic job in getting peoples attention and slowly waking people up to a better, cleaner way.   Work with nature, not against it for the sake of the dollar.


 .


   

« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 07:13:00 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2008, 12:02:01 PM »
I am another person who used to subscribe to Home Power.

It is a good mag. for people with bucks.

I would have kept getting it if it had a hands on section. Or what other folks do to survive in other parts of the world.

If I come to the point where I need the latest inverter. I might pick up a copy.

Right now this is where I do my reading about renewables


               Greg

« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 12:02:01 PM by scallywagard »

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2008, 10:12:58 AM »
Howdy all.


We have been considering a magazine devoted to do-it-yourself renewable energy. Since we recently started a publishing company, many of the pieces are now in place. I worked in the magazine and publishing industry for a few years (I was the technical editor of Zymurgy Magazine, circulation 20,000).


Here are a few things to chew on, and we appreciate any comments and ideas from folks here:


--I was a contributor to Larry Barr's ESSN e-magazine for 2 years. Larry is a great guy! The e-magazine folded because it's so difficult to get anyone to pay money for 'traditional' advertising in an online magazine, though they are willing to do it for a print magazine. Banners and google ads and affiliate programs seem to be how it works online, but these are very problematic...as anyone can see from the ads on Otherpower and here. A lot of them are for Bulls**t Ebooks and other scams, and it's tough to filter out the ads we don't want.


--Another option is a non-profit organization, where the magazine is a membership bonus. That's how Zymurgy worked (and still does)


-- In both of these cases (a for-profit or a non-profit magazine) my experience with both Zymurgy and the ESSN show me that we'd need to hire an advertising manager. Since we have no phone service up here, they couldnt' work from our location. We are lucky enough to have our awesome shipping office in town with a real phone and FAX machine....but an advertising manager has to do more than answer the phone as the advertisers flock to us (joke) -=- that person would need to actively *pursue advertisers with mailings and phone calls.


-- It's just not within our financial capability to hire someone now. We pretty much just barely break even after paying our meager salaries here.


So, what does everyone think? A non-profit print magazine with volunteer contributors, editors, and volunteers seeking advertising? That might work. A non-profit e-magazine for member readers only? A membership fee might cover the expenses. One thing I'm pretty sure will not work is supporting an online magazine with traditional ads....nobody has worked as hard or with more enthusiasm as Larry Barr on ESSN, and he couldn't make it work.


Cheers. Your thoughts and ideas appreciated.


DAN F

« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:12:58 AM by ADMIN »

bsafe

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2008, 10:58:59 AM »
Well the subscription card just fell out of my computer, so I will send in my subscription to Fieldlines, Monday. I will send  $20 to the Dans for one of the best online D.I.Y. services that exist. When funds allow I will renew my subscription to Builditsolar.com. My wife likes this system because we dont have to find space for another magazine or book, that alone is worth $20. (light hearted ribbing  aside) I would like to see a printed, end of year "best of" magazine compiled from threads that the board members or an editor found the most useful and/ or expanded upon. You could  use it as an encouragement to "subscribe" to Fieldlines and sell advertising in the back along with a  conversion table from metric to "standard".  ; )
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:58:59 AM by bsafe »

fcfcfc

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2008, 10:59:28 AM »
Hi All:


That trend is not limited to the paper world.... Look at www.findsolar.com.... Recently they hooked up with Cooler planet and now they have a more commercial look and content to them... paid advertising through "featured installers" etc..

Capitalism by definition forces everything in that direction other wise it will not survive... it is very simple really...

You can not be "born" on the ocean and decide you are now going to create a group that refuses to learn how to swim... if you do, they probably will not stand the test of time.. The only way for them to have a chance at success, is to get off the ocean... and the days for that have pretty much gone by the way side, simply do to population growth....


.....Bill

« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:59:28 AM by fcfcfc »

FuddyDuddy

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2008, 07:31:33 PM »
I see many good points from both sides of the fence. Both Ian from Home Power and DanF from Other Power have valid comments, as do many of the others that have posted on this topic.

And yes, I agree, "idiot lights" aren't what I would want to see on my system. Hovever, consider the oil pressure gauge in a car. They used to be real, but most people had no idea what they should read, so they ignored them, BUT, when that red light goes on, Whoa! I've got a problem. As a consequence, the manufacture's build for the "comman" man. Not the DIY people. The DIY people are where most of the innovations have come from for the last 50 years, but that tends to get lost in the shuffle.

I've taken Home Power for years, and have enjoyed it. My subsription ran out this month and I hadn't planned to renew it. Not because I don't like it, but because I'm a retired industrial controls engineer and am living on SS. As anyone that's living the same way realizes, that almost brings me up to poverty level. My brother in law got me another two year renewal for the magizine, which I will enjoy. Even though I can't afford any of the "stuff" shown in the magizine, it does help me stay up to date on what is going on in the industry and I do enjoy the majority of their articles.

I only have about 60 watts of PV on line. It runs through a SSC3 charge controller, built from a kit, which charges four six volt batteries (two strings in parallel) which run a small (75w) inverter which runs a PLC. That PLC controls my entire HVAC system. It draws on a "solar" area (like a small sun room) for additional heat in the winter, and through some piping (4"), cooling air at night in the summer to help keep the A/C bills down. That system has been under "developement" for well over 15 years. I'm currently working on adding an analog output to control a VFD. That VFD uses a 120v single phase source, stepped up through a 1kva 120/480 volt transformer connected to a 480v, 3 phase VFD, which in turn, is connected to a 240vac, 3 phase, 50Hz English motor. That will run my new fan system in the "solar" area. By the way, it does work and runs like a champ.

The gentlemen that made the comment about not trusting industrial "programming" was quite correct. The problem lies with the manufactures to some extent and with the public in others. The public want it "now", so the manufacture's say "do it in six weeks". You can't trouble shoot a complex software package in six weeks. The result is software that can, indeed, mess up under some conditions. IE, look at Mickey Soft.

I turely believe there is more than enough "space", and demand, for both magazines and I would do my best to come up with some mobey if Other Power does put out some kind of publication, but at the same time I will continue to enjoy Home Power as it comes out.

Home Power has, by the way, a very good active "archive" on line site that has many good articles.


Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.

Keep up the excellent work.

FuddyDuddy

« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 07:31:33 PM by FuddyDuddy »

veewee77

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2008, 05:43:20 PM »
Hi all!


I read about half way through these responses and I am surprised at all of you.


Watch out, for this very site could be in jeopardy by the very thing this article discusses.


If you want excellent, hands-on information, look here. AS IT IS. Send your friends and other interested parties here. AS IT IS.


Those interested in keeping the hands-on stuff alive, get off the damn keyboard, pick up your tools and recording equipment and get back to work!


Those who are new and also visitors to this site will be very happy for the DIY projects that the members of this forum present here. Those will will not buy a magazine plowed full of ads will sit for hours poring over the information contained in this forum and it's sister site, Otherpower.com.


I have learned a LOT right here, far more that I would have from a small handful of DIY articles in magazine-based articles. Mostly because the magazines are simply outlets for companies selling their wares, with just enough DIY tucked away to keep us interested in buying the next one for no other reason than the three worst words in a monthly publication. . . ". . .to be continued. . .".


No matter what others may think, I, for one, am very satisfied with this site, and it sister site, and am very appreciative of the Dans, and those who spend their "free time" doing "free work" to keep this "free resouce" just that, "free".


Those who want a magazine they can stack up on a shelf somewhere, be my guest and go subscribe to several. It will take several subscriptions to such ad-filled resources to equal the gigabytes of information included in this site and it's sister.


Those of us who want good, new, quick, inspiring, fun, important, relative and most of all "free" information;


WELCOME HOME!


JMHO - YMMV


Doug


P.S. Leave it as it is!

« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 05:43:20 PM by veewee77 »

spacejunk

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2008, 07:26:51 PM »
Sly,

you forgot:


  1. Most commercial Wind Turbines do not work to spec' and/or advertise vague and misleading spec data.
  2. All Cheap chinese commercial turbines are suspect, made from inferior materials, dont produce the claimed output and will vibrate, fly apart or burn out in the first strong wind.


This is mainly because there are no national/international standards for measurement and reporting applicable to commercial Small Wind Turbines. eg no quality system in place , and not requirement to test the turbines with Traceable, calibrated equipment.

Anyone heard of NATA ?


Its not just the chinese junk either, my experience with Futurenergy has also been very disappointing.


Or am I just getting on my high-horse again.


Happy New-year


 

« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 07:26:51 PM by spacejunk »

GoodWind

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2008, 09:02:09 AM »
This kind of topic touches a lot of nerves.

If it ain't broke don't fix it is the backbone statement no doubt.


The sheer ability to read this forum down to the last message is more then most can do in the printed magazine article, where the mind will drift onto something else whilst trying to keep with the content. That's not the case here. Each block of text is like having someone talking to you in your shop. It's a raw dialog and not edited into a packaged article.


When an industry is small and at infancy, there's a lot of diy and personal attachment. In this world of prices in orbit, Money is the fuel that is wrapped around all the corporate and industrial functions. Everything is now targeted to the supposed audience that will provide a return and growth.


The time and effort in thousands of hours per year to provide media is not evident from the final product.


There is a different consciousness between those here and the 'idiot light' people of the world. The people of the world pride themselves on being technically stupid and brag about it. Take computers for example, I used to do customer service for an ISP (Internet Service Provider), and all the people over 50 would proudly say "I don't know a darn thing about computers" and be so proud of that fact. The people here on this forum that design and build and document function are the one in ten million in the world now. Look what's happened!! => You are even outcasts to the home power dudes !!


Change and innovation for the sheer sake of it is the root of the downfall of mankind. Everyone has to reinvent the wheel for the heck of it in the big industries to try to come up with something that's different and "better" that they can push and attempt to get people to buy their product as a result. We had Steam Trains that were designed to run for hundreds of years before the cylinders and the hundreds of tons of iron would ever get tired and wear out. 99.9999% of them became scrap metal. Time, engineering and innovation down the drain. Horrific wastes of resources. The current disposable world of planned obsolescence has people throwing out machinery with engines and motors only after a year of use. There's nothing wrong with the engines. The tin can decks on the mowers made now will crack and fall apart. People in high dollar homes throw out new mowers when the rubber tires wear out.


You talk about wanting regulations and standards on the controllers and designs. That puts big government right in the midst of what is being done. There's an old man who is a retired congressman who said that people complain that there's too many laws, and every time they see something that's not controlled that's out of line, they say "There ought to be a law..", and that's why there are so many. ALL of what's controlled by government is in the hands of politicians, who are technically ignorant. They control and doll out billions of dollars. There fuel is paid for by the gov and taxpayers. They have no clue about how a solar system works. They see a single solar panel on a roof of a factory or home and think it's running the entire building.


Now Look at codes -  building codes, electrical codes, etc. Codes say you can put a leach line on a septic tank 18 to 24 inches down, and out in the prairies, in the winter the ground is frozen 4 to 6 foot down as it gets to 20 below, and people by the hundreds with recently installed and backed up septics in the middle of winter are calling up plumping contractors who say "your leach lines are frozen, and we will have to come and dig them up and replace them", and they charge $1,000.00 and up for this. It should be FOUR foot down, not 2 foot. The old grandfathered systems had them five feet down, but since they were from a generation or two ago, codes now condemns them and people have to put in new septic tanks the top of which is only 2 feet below the ground.. When it freezes a year or two later, they call the contractor and pay all over again. "But that's the code!!" The contractors tell me when I tell them the lines are not down where they are supposed to be. ALL codes does is create business for contractors, and force people to have to use contractors, especially the 99% who are not diy's.


The quality of what is produced by industry is simply garbage. Not just china, everything. Companies want to cut expenses in a down economy, so they cut this and that on designs and there's no quality, which makes it more disposable and obsolete all the sooner.


Prime Example - There's a Brand NEW Moen shower valve on the renovated house we moved into. It mixes the hot water with the cold water automatically and you can't adjust it. I cut open the sheet rock behind it and it's just a brass body. Lukewarm is all you get from the shower head. It takes 165 degree solar heated water and mixes it with the 65 degree cold line and comes out at about 100 degrees at best, lukewarm. Even with the handle turned all the way to the hot side; There's no adjustment. I'm so tired of hearing my wife shriek and yell that the waters to darn cold that I'm ripping it out and putting in a delta individual hot and cold valve where I can adjust it with the brain in my head, not with the brainless brain that's in the valve. This is the world we live in today. The valve automatically keeps the water from getting too hot in case there's a 2 year old that goes into the bathroom and turns it all the way open and gets burned, and they then sue the valve company. There's no kids in the house here, and if there was, WE would teach them to use their brain and turn it open slowly and adjust it..


This goes full circle back to this board here. There's no reason to re invent it. It's not crashed and crashing every hour. When that happens, we can fix the program. The lack of diy simple function innovation - which is what gave us the radio, the car, and all of modern industry, is the root cause why there is garbage in the markets. People are bred to be sheep and cattle who just follow what's fed to them in their environment. AND all the corporate magazines do surveys to find out what these sheep and cattle are doing, and what their demographics are, and produce a generic publication to fit the picture, not the niche.


GW

« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 09:02:09 AM by GoodWind »

spacejunk

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2010, 09:32:02 PM »
Ok, This is an old thread but Im only returning to it now.
GoodWind, I completely understand what you are saying. And I could give a few other examples of where sound engineering practice and/or innovation has suffered at the expense of "product safety" and economics.
However my  comments regarding Traceability and requirement to conform to to Measurement Standards are made with the vision of improving the quality of commercial Wind Turbines.
These standards do not need to be enforceable by Law. A Quality System as applied to measurement and testing of any product, simply means the performance of the product is tested in such a manner, to known standards, using equipment that is calibrated with traceability to known calibration values. This is why Testing Labs will report their test results, advertising that their Lab is "NATA accredited" or such like.
Relevent to Wind Turbines, if turbine manufacturers started advertising that they are Accredited by a Third-Party Quality Systems company, then their Product specifications would be far more credible. Those mfrs that dont have report traceability for product specifications, simply would not sell as much of their dodgy product.

Lets face it, even most of the well-educated consumers, in the market for a wind turbine only have limited appreciation for the performance specs they read. There needs to be a standard against which ALL turbine mfrs must test and report.

Otherwise we will continue to get confusing and missleading advertising. Even in the US this is going on:

(*) - Dont report usable information for their  PMAs, just Vopen circuit * I short circuit..useless! And the web site is filled with confusing and bogus info..  No where do I see a Test report, from any laboratory, accredited or otherwise.

At the moment, manufacturer simply lie about the specifications and the customer has no way of telling weather the Specs are real or complete BS.

(*) [Edit: killed offsite vendor link that preys on uneducated RE hobbyists -- DanG]

« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 09:39:37 PM by DanG »

bob g

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2010, 11:24:36 PM »
good luck on getting any meaningful standards in place, the industry has been kicking that ball around for decades!

until the buying public demand truth in advertising and realize that 28mph standard is worthless, things will likely never change.

its just to niche of a market to get any lawmakers on board to legislate anything, and the industry cannot compete against
bogus claims of the margin manufactures that will tell you that you can get 3kwatts out of a pm converted delco alternator
running with a 50inch plastic prop for 500 bucks.

i guess we should be thankful that most post numbers based on 28mph, instead of 50mph or worse.

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

fabricator

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Re: Homepower magazine
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 09:02:22 PM »
When I had my HP subscription I would devour it from front to back within an hour of it's arrival, study all the hook up drawings, even read all the adds, I dropped my subscription last year, last month I bought one from a news stand, 100K solar projects, 70k wind projects, 5000 dollar hot water storage tanks, no thanks, I get everything I need right here.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.