Author Topic: Frustration (Read 322 times)

bj · « **on:** October 27, 2009, 06:51:35 PM »

For good reason, a lot of people are getting frustrated. Some, have shown patience in the past, but you can't blame them.

I am reasonably sure that the Fieldlines problems of late aren't due to people sitting around doing nothing.

That leaves a lot of other reasons for it, but, I wonder, is it money?

These are tough times. I guess it could be.

I for one, am willing to shell out cash, in whatever form.

This forum, and all the people involved, have taught me more than I can begin to put into words. That makes it extremely valuable to me.

Whatever the outcome, I for one will log in every day, and fight whatever

the daily fight is, read, learn, chuckle sometimes. Until the "link Broken"

or whatever message they use these days, comes up.

Until then, well, I hope then never comes.

bj

gizmoguy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:26:16 PM »

I myself have recently thought of inquiring of the hosting costs and offering compensation towards it since I get such great help from everyone here.

birdhouse · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:07:40 PM »

this forum can't die! i think it's the best one!

PPLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEE let it continue!

maybe one of the dans needs to drink one less beer and put one more into this place!

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2009, 09:48:10 PM »

Okay, I am going to put this out in the open.

There are two possible reasons for things being like they are here. There has certainly been enough bitching and moaning lately that we cannot attribute the problems on this site to ignorance, for the Admin is certainly aware that the peasants, regulars and hangers-on are not happy at all.

That leaves two other possibilities.

One is apathy.. and that is a understandable reaction from the Admin. Everything changes over the years and maybe this oddball Fieldlines child that they birthed is no longer welcome in the house. Maybe they don't want to feed it or house it anymore, maybe they wish it would grow up and find another home to live in. Maybe it is a pain in their arse and a thorn in their side, and they wish it would go away.

The other is suicide. Maybe this "fieldlines" forum is not what the founders want at all. Maybe open sharing of information and free exchange of ideas have not really worked out so well. Maybe it costs too much and the return is too little. Maybe the Chinese can do it cheaper and faster, and the open exchange of ideas only encourages the Chinese to do it cheaper and faster.

Two? No three.. three other possibilities..

Three.. The guys who own this place are too broke to make it better.. Google ads are not enough for a dedicated server. Let's start a donation drive!

Amongst our suspicions... are.. Four... There are four reasons that this site might be like it is.. Maybe the founders have a vision that we cannot see at this time. Maybe they know that our pain in not being able to use the forum and all the errors we see will somehow make us stronger and more self-reliant.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE VOLVO FARMER INQUISITION!

FishbonzWV · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2009, 03:11:59 AM »

Well,

You could increase their revenue by clicking on the google ads.

They added those a few years back to defray the cost of hosting.

I will click on them occasionally just to help out.

(Good golly I hope this post makes it in)

Bonz

electrondady1 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:55:08 AM »

been coming here every morning for about six years.

won't abandon the greatest body of knowledge on the net and the advise of people i admire because of some software or programing glitch.

if the dans need money to make it go then set up an account and post the address.

birdhouse · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2009, 09:10:06 AM »

i would like to take back the last line in my previous comment. it is not nice and does no-one any good. before writing that i was reading some other posts about frustrated users, and was getting the impression that this site may be on its way out. that made me sad. so:

sorry to all, my actions were un-called for.

ADMIN · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2009, 09:20:23 AM »

Hello all. This is your ADMIN speaking. The smoking lamp has been turned on, but please remain in your seats with the seatbelt fastened.

Here's the whole story:

We are currently being horrendously overcharged for our local dedicated server and bandwidth. So, 3 months ago we decided to switch ISPs, to one that is NOT local. First we had to move this board, as the software is complicated to install and upgrade (not a DIY project). Upgrading to the new version of Scoop was mandatory, for security issues. Scoop is now being hosted by one of the few ISPs that supports it, with a real human for tech support. It now costs us only $50 a month to host this board.

Next, we move ALL the rest of our websites to a new ISP, (a different one, so that problems here do not impact our other websites). But I am waiting to do this until Scoop is running reliably.

Even we do not know all the new ways the upgraded board works. Variables changed, code changed, features were turned off, others were turned on, and we are still learning all this along with all of you--and trying to find out how to fix things!

THAT SAID --

I am trying my best to get this board fixed up. The latest problems ('upgrading' message and no site access at various times of day) were due to a corrupted database from the 'whos online' feature, and appear to be fixed as of last night (at least from here).

Neither of the owners here at Forcefield are able to do the PERL coding required to fix the board problems, I'm the only one here that can do it. Last time we asked for free programming help and got it, it was a disaster, and the board crashed. This software requires an expert.

I am not an owner at Forcefield-- I'm simply a part-time employee who also has a real job that demands much of my time. It also demands lots of travel; For 2 weeks in October, I was offline while traveling and unable to even read the board, much less try to fix anything that went wrong or try to add features (photo uploads in comments, for example). And, as most of you know, all of us here at Forcefield travel frequently to give wind turbine lectures and seminars, we also give seminars at our location. When these are going on, we are not able to read the board, post, reply, or make fixes...seminars are 24/7 events.

So, Volvo Farmer in particular -- It's NOT apathy! What we would really like to do is migrate this board to a new software package and ISP, without losing all the postings, and without losing everyone's logins and passwords. This requires hiring a programmer. But I am NOT a programmer, I'm a writer and photographer. Forcefield does not have the money to hire someone new, even for a one-off job -- we have the 2 owners, plus 2 part time employee including me. That's it. We all make just barely above minimum wage, but we continue to work in the DIY windpower field at low pay because we enjoy it.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is, complaining does not do anyone any good, unless you can suggest workable and affordable solutions.

Move the board and all its content to new, modern software, with avatars and private messaging and all that stuff? YOU BET. Who here is volunteering to do this for free? We'll pay for renting the server and for the hosting. Bring it on. A fund drive? SURE! But there needs to be a price set to hire someone to do this change over to new software. We have no clue who to hire, and going online to 'hireafreelancer.com' is VERY risky.

Any takers?

ADMIN

(Dan F)

ADMIN · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:02:35 AM »

I think the 'who's online' feature is causing all the problems folks are seeing with getting the 'upgrading' message and no site access.

I removed it, down the hatch, bye! etc.

Probably will have to flush the database again tonight, then see if it starts to work right.

ADMIN

pvale · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:20:21 AM »

Boy, I had no idea, Scoop is apparently an old BB system. Must be a cantankerous, clunky old thing. possibly the board has outgrown it. I am not grousing, or complaining, with the resources you have, it's pretty good. My experience and degree is nominally in electrical engineering, but I've been pushed into IT things over the years because I started playing with computers in 1975 and took a few computer related course in school. But back then, COBOL and Fortran were mainstream langusges. Surprisingly, Unix/linux has lasted and I am relatively conversant. But I've not got enough Perl experience to do you any good.

Having dabbled around in the It field a bit, I feel for you. Maybe if someone does get a fund raising thing going, i can contribute a little green stuff.

Thank you for the job you do. I understand, even if few others do.

Perry L. Vale

bj · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:09:18 AM »

So Dan, my reason for the first post was to find out why. And all of us have some answers now.

My only fear now is that you personally thought I was taking a shot. NOT

my intent.

Possibly, and time will tell, the biggest value here is that you will know

just how much some of us do appreciate all the work that is done. And I am equally as sure that none of us understand how tough a job it is.

Also, so you know, if it ever comes down to it, I and several others are willing to put our money where our mouths are. I, like you, have no idea where to start looking for a competent for hire type. Easy to spend lots, causing a lot of spending. (been there done that).

To finish, I am not sure what my own capabilities can offer you, but the offer is always open.

Best of luck

bj

wellusee · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2009, 12:41:01 PM »

How much is a ticket in the Christmas raffle? People who do voluntary work like ye do are usually honest. So say ye were raffling an Otherpower book or a set of magnets or something I would buy a couple of tickets ,just an idea!

Paddy.

oldculett · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:27:27 PM »

I'll take this forum as is or anyway I can get it. I have got so much from here. Slow or off line sometimes...so what. Thats not going to stop my pacemaker! This forum is worth 10,000 times what it costs, and more. THANK ALL OF YOU. Oldculett

electrondady1 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:35:36 PM »

so how much for a professional programmer to fix the bugs.

did you get three quotes?

i personally think wdyasq should pay all expenses. !

it must be worth something to him to be able to burst all those bubbles

. ha!

i know volofarmer has at least 100 bucks(plus interest) laying around he's willing to part with.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:05:35 PM »

DanF, I'd like to thank you very much for taking the time to reply. Sometimes a little information is really helpful in making sense of why things are the way they are. You will see no more speculation on my part about your motivations. Sorry if I offended anyone on the mountain with that post.

I have actually contacted a programmer and asked him what it would take to migrate the forum here into modern software. He confirmed that it would be a really big job. I am not just trying to be just a complainer. I really do care about this place and want to see it fixed too.

I think the fact that we have identified some of the problems really opens the door to coming up with solutions. I ain't the only one who cares about this place. I get some mixed messages from you admin folks and I think it would be helpful if you all had a similar vision here.

I see a need to hire a programmer who can migrate all the Scoop posts into a more modern forum platform, either phpbb, or Vbulliten. I see the need for a dedicated server, in an air conditioned secure location to host this forum, and maybe the other sites too. Is this the goal? or could you clarify or expand on that?

I like to fix things, I like to help. I ain't the only one here who wants to help. You have a virtual army at your disposal here but you need to give us clear objectives and goals or we will all sit around complaining. I'm not a programmer but I could cut loose with a couple of Franklins if I saw a clear objective that needed financial support.

Hey, let's work together to fix this thing! I think it would be really super helpful if you made a list of things you need to fix it and post it in the forum. I know you have had bad experiences in the past with free hosting and stuff, but often, someone knows someone who has a sister who knows someone who can really help you out. If you don't ask, you will certainly never receive. I have personally seen a couple of websites raise thousands of dollars for server upgrades and stuff, simply by asking members for a little financial help. If five or ten grand could fix this thing, don't count us members out for raising it., because I think we have the heart, soul, and motivation to do it.

birdhouse · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:24:38 PM »

i've been pretty broke lately, but have fifty bucks toward a solid solution!

i do like the raffle idea too!

Nothing40 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2009, 08:24:14 PM »

"Scoop is apparently an old BB system. Must be a cantankerous, clunky old thing. "

It is.AFAIAC it's been the bane of this forum for years,yet some people(users mostly?) seem dead set against changing it. Personally I think changing the software would solve 90%,or more,of the problems here. Seems like the admins have found new hosting and stuff,so that should be OK. I'd suggest that we take a look at SMF (simple machines forum) software,it's stable,versatile,and more importantly works..not to mention there's support for it,and people know how to use it. Half of the people I've talked to have no idea what Scoop is,they've never used it,or they have bad memories of it.

Just my 2 cents.

If my server was up and running yet,I'd offer to host it here at my house. I've only got a "standard" cable internet connection(20megabit downstream,and 1-2 upstream),but it's a static IP,and I've got plenty of storage space.

I might just backup the site to my machine anyways,just incase. On second thought,that may load the site down more than necessary. Thoughts?

Bruce S · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:19:09 AM »

ADMIN:

My offer still stands let me know what speed processor MB , drive size you would like to go with and I'll send what I have.

Do you need a NAS or SAN? I have both , my home PCs currently autobackup to a NAS that is only 2T-byte in size but I can move ALL that to DVDs and ship what I have.

I'll even pay for shipping an old HP 600 w/ 4 200Mhz 1-gig RAM on board each, with 12 HDs on it if you'd like.

It's running an older Mandrake 7.2 running SMP, TFTP for mirroring distros, but easy enough to migrate to a smaller box.

Also: Put up a Paypal for "server + software " and I'll start it with nothing less than $100USD. MY Promise!!

I agree with VF, we can help tons!! just let us know.

Bruce S

JF · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:30:00 AM »

Dear Friends.

Recently returned from S.Asia

May I fully agree and likewise also suggest that the Admin. - formally request all friends of this board to financially assist in the preservation of the forum that has - and continues to offer so much RE-related assistance to all. And for the further technical development of the satisfactory capacities of the server and other reliable, usable and adaptable program functions etc.

Likewise from other and also previous comments - I am sure that many members are more than willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Greetings to all - JF

Perry1 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:17:26 PM »

I'm kinda new to the board and have learned more than I have contributed. I have never thought to click on a Google add. I guess primarily because they are usually for that build your own wind turbine and solar panel scam ebook. Maybe if we all clicked on an add (or 5) prior to logging off that would help.

Problem with the open source nature of all this is that it's a crappy business model and running a forum, or business requires money. So you get triple tasked people doing an upgrade in their spare time. It sucks because a lot of people are making money in the small wind hype machine and the forum that educates many of them is going broke because they prefer to help and be teachers. How many of those lame ebay turbine makers learned how to do it here?

Just a thought. I have worked at a few R&D companies that have limited budgets and we would get interns from the local college to work for us. They are cheap and I was surprised at how good they were. The college would give them credit for the work as well which kept them motivated.

Perry

AbyssUnderground · « **Reply #20 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:04:56 AM »

I feel the pain here. I've just gone through a server change myself, and it was a painful but slightly enjoyable experience at the same time.

If you want a nice dedicated server host, http://www.kimsufi.co.uk and http://www.ovh.co.uk (and their subsidaries .com, .es, .it, etc) is a great host (same company on both links, different range of servers). Sadly they only sell to European customers, but if you know someone who you can send the money to to pay for it, all is well. They're based in France and it's the biggest datacenter in France. They have great connectivity to the whole world, especially Europe however. They have over 600Gbps of internet connectivity =)

My recommendation is do what you did years ago. Close this board, but keep it read only, and start a new board up on new software. I recommend phpBB3. It's free, easy to setup, fully supported, and there are tonnes of converters out there if you ever want to change to other software like vBulletin, IPB, SMF, etc. It's also PHP based, not perl. Perl is no good for web based software in my opinion. PHP is much quicker and much more powerful for web based software. Perl is great for other things however.

I'd be more than happy to help out with skinning phpBB3 to make the forum a bit less "white", as I did to my own website (www.betaarchive.co.uk). I'm a very proficient server admin (have been for 4 years now), but I don't do Linux I'm afraid. I'm strictly a Windows guy. Even so, Windows does the job just the same. I host 16 websites on my server, and its not even up to 5% load (but then again it is a quad core with 4gb RAM... =) )

That's just my 2p anyway. I seriously think it's time to ditch this board software. It's old, tired, unsupported, and painfully slow and unreliable. You need something modern and supported.

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