Repeating Topics, repeating topics, re...

[finnsawyer]

Probably 90+ percent of the topics on this board are hashed and rehashed time and again as newbies come on board.  Considering that most people get into this to save money (that's an economic imperative, mate), it makes sense to revisit the economic aspects of wind power from time to time.  While selling power has not been a viable option in the past, that is changing as more states drag the power companies kicking and screaming into the future by instituting net metering programs.  The scene keeps changing.  That's why this rant.  I don't agree with Admin's decision to disable comments on Lilboxerfrank's rant.  Who knows what gem of information might have popped up.  Also, I don't think the bandwidth used by the thread would have been significant.  So, editors, back off.  

Editors Note;

Fine with me. Thankless job and the pay sucks anyway. Now any yoyo can post any ignorant, unresearched questions. Hope thats what you wanted, since thats what you are getting.

I quit.

Is that backed off far enough mister sawyer?

[Nando]

If the EDITOR quits who is going to be there for all those that want to complain, and complain and bitch and bitch ?..

They need a escape goat and a big one !!

I do not want that Job

Nando

[dinges]

To the editor: so, someone disagrees and you throw in the towel?

To Finsawyer:

The issue here is not the rehashing but the ignorant questions. The poster (Lilboxerfrank) that you mentioned; I had written a reply to him, indicating him towards reading a few articles on homepower.com & some other links. But, instead of pressing 'post' I pressed 'delete'. Why?

Because if someone can't be bothered to do his homework, I can't be bothered to help him out and do his homework for him. So, instead of posting my reply (it was already written, so the work was done) I deleted it. Besides, we don't want to encourage such lazy questions here on the board.

There's a Dutch proverb: 'one idiot can ask more questions than 10 wise men can answer.'

There was another, similar question recently. Someone asked what generator to buy so he could sell power to the grid. That is, buy and maintain a genny AND the diesel fuel. The first time his question got deleted. Indignified, he asked why and reposted. IMO, it should have been deleted again. There's way too many polite and patient people on this board that will actually try to help him out.

Just my opinion, but one I value highly.

Peter.

[jimjjnn]

Been there and done that.

I think the board is doing a great job of moderating. If he quits, watch all the junk and spammers appear. How many people are just too lazy to try and look up the info already posted on this forum?

[kitno455]

IMHO, the problem here is not always the moderators or the clueless noobs, but the board software itself.

try looking at phpbb or vbulletin compared to scoop:

couple dozen stories on the front page (instead of 10)

ability to keep some threads sticky so they stay at the top (instead of an unread FAQ)

important, recently replied to threads stay first on page (not most recent posted)

yes, there will always be noobs, and their crap needs to get file 13'd, but the search function is hard to use, and the first 10 stories dont seem to have anything to do with your question, and are constantly changing. what are they to do?

if the new user had a bit more help, and the board looked a bit more like other boards, i think we would have better results.

allan

[Editor]

Fellow Fieldlinians;

Well, after doing this for about 4 years, I have just figured out that you can't do this kind of job without pissing off some people. I am not willing to consume my limited energy doing it anymore. I have a lot of my heart and soul invested in this website and would like to think I have helped keep it a useful and viable resource for DIY RE and helped keep it on track. Obviously some do not agree. I could go more in depth but will not.

Change is good. I may return, but for now I will let others do it or it won't get done, whichever.

This decision was not arrived at today, I have been considering it for some time, todays whining was simply the last straw.

Ed.

[jimovonz]

I appreciate your efforts - time given free, with benefit to us all (weather we knew it or not!)

[DanG]

If all things in moderation are good, I miss the moderator already.

[commanda]

My humble suggestion;

Can we recruit someone to the editorial staff who is proficient at hacking perl, the base language which this board is written in, so sensible modifications can be implemented to the code. I have previously made several suggestions when the subject of photo file size has been discussed, as have others.

I also think the editor should leave one comment in a deleted post (his own) explaining why comments have been disabled. I presume this would require a modification to the code.

If the board ran under php, I would gladly offer my services. I have extensive experience with php, being webmaster over at swafl.org which runs phpnuke. I have built many custom modules for that site. I have also built a huge LAMP system (Linux, Apache, Mysql, Php)  for my employer.  But, in my considered opinion, Perl was written by aliens, probably lifted from that crashed ufo held at Roswell.

Amanda

[vawtman]

Hang in there Ed

 I think you deserve a raise has well has the Dans and wouldt mind paying a subscription.

 Awhile back i made a posting about the magnetic levitation alternator used by Solwind And it was deleted. So instead complaining here,I emailed the Dans and Dan f responded in a couple days.I could see where the word levitation would scare any moderator. NICE for him to take the time and give his opinion of it.

   THANKS TO ALL THAT RUN THIS

[richhagen]

Peter, I like that proverb, I'll have to remember that one.  I sometimes read the re-hashed posts, and occasionally learn something from the replies.  If I don't have time, I just skip the ones I am not interested in.  I don't bother to insult them or tell them there idea his stupid as it would likely be a waste of time to do so.  I may tell them it won't work and why I believe that to be the case, or where they could have looked up the answer or seen an example, or I might just skip it.  I do think we want to encourage new folks to ask questions, get involved, and learn.  After all, technically, you could look up most aspects of alternator design as most of this stuff is not new. If you include all published papers, patents, and books, you could eliminate 9/10ths or more of the questions.  I do have broadband, so it does make it easier to skip and backtrack on the list than with a slower connection, but I think as a 'community', it is in our interests to try to point the new folks in the right direction when possible, who knows, years from now, they might be the next OLDF, Jerry, Ed Lenze, or one of the large number of folks in addition to the hosts that contribute to this board.  Everyone starts somewhere, even if it is with learning how to search and use the internet.  The editors in general do a good job for not a lot o praise.  We all benefit from there efforts.  They keep us from being flooded with spam, and other off topic stuff in addition to limiting redundancy.  Rich

[Bruce S]

Folks;

 With due respect to the editor and the Dans.

Are we not all over the age of 8? why in the world are people who are getting onto a website that is FREE!!!! and complaining because someone does something they don't like is childish and worse causes undo, unearned and unwanted stress is beyond me.

Instead of just complaining why not take the time, that others before you have done, and send a request for explanation "DONE WITHOUT ANGER!!!" ?

Peter: I have read a lot of your stuff ...good stuff, but this isn't the first time people have fired off at the ED. So NO he's not throwing in the towel so easily. Probably just sick and tired off childish atittudes.

I have an idea, EDITOR : Forward ALL the stuff to those who are complaining about your unpaid work, and have them try to do it, not just one day , but try a whole weeks worth that way you can take sometime off a vacation sort of if you wish.

As long as if have been on here I have only complain once, and that was only while trying to read through a flame war pointed towards another who gives his help out freely.

I for one would hate to see this website/service go away and would quickly offer my help in anyway possible whether through a subscription or bandwidth mirroring or even helping with editing incomings.

 POLL TIME!! how many of you complaining about the editor, are willing to give up say 6 hours of your everyday lives to filter this board? by everyday lives I mean 365 days of your lives.

FINSAWYER!!! who the hell do you think you are telling the editor to back off!! who the hell do you think keeps the other BS off of here?

Your jumping in on behalf of "Lilboxerfrank's rant" so I thought I'd jump in on the editors behalf.

YOU TRY DOING THIS WITHOUT PAY AND PUT UP PEOPLE LIKE YOU COMPLAINING .

Bruce S

coamanda: I agree PERL was written and stolen by aliens:-)

 

[SpirckleM]

Yuck Yuck...That makes me laugh, because it is an especially apt description.  I once wrote a prototype web site with Perl, and there are two things that I gained from that experience... a) a healthy disgust for Perl as a 'real' language and b) a big appreciation for regular expressions.

[willib]

kitno i'm sure you know that you can adjust the number of stories that you can display its found in the display preferences, and works not only for the front page but "Everything " , and  also the "diaries " section.

( once you become a member that is..)

i chose 25 .

i've recently started using the recent activity in the menu ( also only available to ppl who join !! )

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2965/untitled.JPG

i have a question ...

how do you display what you are looking at ?

i like the Minimal , because it lets me see who responded to whom..

to editor T..

i'm sure its a thankless job .

Remember

Quitters never win , and winners never quit !

damn i crack myself up.

[terry5732]

Just because a topic has been discussed previously, it is by no means "covered"

After a year here, I have yet to seriously search past posts, as the few times I tried I just got a ton of extraneous crap.

The first covering of a topic most certainly did not contain the end all be all best way to do anything.

This is a discussion forum and all relavent topics should continue to be discussed.

It is the exchange of ideas which is the basis for learning and discoveries.

To simply say "we talked about that before, go look" is foolish.

Yes there are stupid questions. Generally posted by ignorant people. To whom you will never convey an answer they can understand. Yet the discusson always involves relavent truths to the knowing. And sometimes it's nice to see the really dumb questions and think "I'm glad I wasn't born like that  idiot".

[iFred]

Personally, I have always tried with great effort to always understand an editor's decision without bias. In most circumstances I will ask questions as to why something was removed, and I do expect at the very least a simple response to such a question as removal so that I can learn from my mistake, besides which it takes much of my personal time to create a post and especially gather relevant data and pictures to produce a post that I would even consider post-able on this board, since it's going worldwide and non-removable.

When the board was created years ago, I am not sure that we had editors at the time but everything was posted, it was a mess. Bringing in an editor seems to have cleared it up a bit, however in doing so I also think there has been some editorial bias towards some of the users that has also been not justified (personal opinion), this comes naturally when your dealing with this many people on a board of this type, an old saying "you can satisfy some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time", so editor take note and don't despair because no matter what you do there will always be someone knocking on your door.  

And by the way, an editor is not a programmer, these are two separate things. Don't expect the editor to do everything. This site has limited staff running it, and it is free after all.

I back the idea and the editor and what he does (I may not always agree with his decisions all the time), but he must read between the lines and have no personal grudge or bias, the "delete key" must be used with temperance.  this is the reason I believe the editor is getting heat lately, involvement in a board like this after years -as he suggests brings it on naturally, so editor; get re-centered, look closely at what is being stated by many on the board and if you really think that we want you gone your sadly mistaken, we do need you and do want you, but the right attitude has to be their with it.

I have always stated - Protect the spirit of the board. I now change this to -"The prime directive of the editor is to protect the spirit of the board.", second is to protect the users.

You can't do this with bias or you risk both.

I wish you well editor, regardless of the outcome and thank you for years of excellence in editing this message board. I personally hope that you stick around and stay involved.

 

[nanotech]

I will second commanda's thoughts.

It wasn't all that long ago I was a newbie on this board.  Looking back at some of my posts, I realise I asked some pretty stupid questions (with the knowledge I have now, gained by some SERIOUSLY patient people replying to my ignorant questions).

But I asked them because after using php message boards almost exclusively since coming on the net, the software of this site is very confusing and not very user friendly to a novice.

I can honestly say that 90% of my "stupid questions" were the result of a failed attempt at searching.  I either didn't have the correct term (due to not knowing the "lingo" of the trade) or the search engine threw out so many completely irrelevant hits that sloughing through them all to find out what I needed to know would have taken DAYS!!

So on the side of the newbies posting repeat questions, I can side with them as to a slightly heavy editing hand.

But also saying that, I have been a moderator on three different forums (one exceeding 10,000 posts per day) and have ran two forums of my own.  I can honestly say that I am VERY glad that I no longer do any of the above.  It is a thankless job to run/moderate a board, and it can completely consume your life, both online and offline.

So to the editors, you have my undying thanks.  With a caveat : please go easy on the noobs, they know not what they do....  

[hvirtane]

I think that most of the problems stated above have got a lot to do with the thing that this board has become so busy. Personally at least I am sometimes feeling really stressed, because I don't have time enough to read all the posts... Not to speak about answering to all the questions I wanted to say something about...

I've got also the feeling that in general some of the comments posted here are nowadays a bit too unfriendly. This maybe also happens, because people commenting are feeling busy and stressed.

Maybe these things could be cured somewhat by doing more work with a better FAQ section and also collecting together some 'good' postings as links. For example it might help quite a lot many newcomers, if all the posts by DanB would be under a link on the top of the page.

In general I'm feeling that the things are still quite OK with the board.

- Hannu

[kitno455]

there is nothing wrong with perl, you just have to be a bit twisted to use it. i guess thats why i have been programming in it almost exclusively for the last 7 years.

the problems i see are in the design of scoop, not perl. and yes, i know you can change some settings, but no noob is going to do that.

allan

[finnsawyer]

Peter, it may be that an "idiot" may be able to ask more questions than ten wise men can answer, but being ignorant of some field of knowledge does not imply that one is an idiot.  Perhaps the "newbies" should be automatically directed to the FAQs area, assuming that it is well documented and thorough.  The last time I checked it seemed kind of sketchy.  In any case the newbies should be helped, else this board is failing to advance its basic purpose.  

It also seems to me that the question of whether one could actually make money off of wind power on a small scale is a natural one for someone that just became interested in wind power to ask.  While everyone seems convinced that they are coming out ahead by generating power off grid, there seems to be a built in bias against selling power back to the man, in any way.  This was probably true in the past (at 3 cents per kilowatt hour), but is changing with net metering laws taking effect.  I was desirous of pointing out that Michigan at least has a somewhat imperfect net metering law, and other states or countries may have introduced such since the last time the topic came up.  And no, I am not pissed off.  I just wanted to have my say, which would have worked a lot easier had comments not being disabled.  Note my clever work around.

Note to our (ex) editor.  I am truly sorry to read that your skin has been worn thin.  I hope over time it regains its natural resiliency.  You have to realize that with a community this large there is going to be a wide range of different perspectives and people want their say.  Anyway, good luck.

To the community at large:  I was surprised to see 18 comments when I logged on today.  It indicated an area of some sensitivity, and I feel I was properly skewered.

One thing I like about this board is the opportunity to have my say.  I hope some of what I contribute proves beneficial.  Concerning the poll:  I found that I could not write a poll question without a dig.  So, take it for a little tongue in cheek humor.

I appreciate the responses.  The Finnsawyer, still sawing away.

[asheets]

I'm sorry to see Ed. take some time off.  Hopefully it won't be permanent.

I'll volunteer to take over some minor sysop/editor duties.  I view that as the least I can do to pay back some of what I've received from the community.

[iFred]

Your kidding right? Twisted is an understatement. Perl was written by aliens, no doubt demented and warped. They had to have been on some type of new chemical on their way to earth, their spaceship probably was running on it. LOL

[commanda]

I'd like to nominate kitno455 to join the editorial staff and fix some the glaring shortcomings in the scoop software.

Anybody want to second that?

Amanda

[Bruce S]

A bit late for sure but I'll 2nd the notion:--))

Cheers

Bruce S