Where to buy good store bought solar panels?

[picmacmillan]

Over a year and a half now, i have built 2 wind gennies,built 600 watts of solar, and purchased a zubbly built on ebay, ( which by the way is an awesome machine. i would strongly advise others to buy one, if and when he sells one...it was very professionally done)* anyhow, i am expecting to go off grid in the near future, and would like to purchase some solar panels...i would liketo take the money i would have spent on electricity each month and buy a panel....i would like your opinion, store locations, and cost....keep in mind i live in ontario canada, and this may affect the cost...i am even interested in buying some store bought used panels if anyone has any available....i also need some charge control equipment like a trace c60, and a controller for the solar.....so in general...i need a store or stores that can get what i need at an affordable price...one more thing...i am going to be putting this solar stuff in the great white north...so it is very cold in the winter....should i be spending alot of time and money on solar, as i heard it doesnt work well incolder temperatures with there being shorter days....i am og the opinionthough that 2 hours of sun, is better tahn none....thank you in advance for your comments, they will be put to good use..one more thing...my electricty bill since last October til now is just short of $1000, and thats with the electricity off all the time except for 3 weeks in October where 2 space heaters ran.... the switch is off at the main!........pickster

[ghurd]

First

PVs are in 'very' short supply right now.

UniSolar has stopped making anything under 60w due to the demand for large European type PVs (Did not bother me- they are thin film).  But other brands did too.

Europe and Japan are taking about all that are made, driving costs for panels and pv compounds WAY up.

Second

I don't like thin film. Personal opinion.  I could get you a good deal on a skid of them that DO NOT work!  They were not used much! Or long.

Third

The place is not going to use much power in the winter because you aren't there, right?  (Jeeze- I hope you go South)

PVs should keep the batteries good with less risk of a dump load going open, a tower going down, or a blade flying off.  

But there is that snow thing...

Fourth

Canada seems to have 'higher' prices and shipping, adjusted for exchange rates, due to boarder crossings.

Watch that shipping cost close!

Last

I am a dealer and will be crossing at the thousand islands heading up past then Easterly (8:00AMish, 401E, 16N, 50NE, 309N) of Ottawa in early August. 4 people in a Camry with everything for 12 days of living.  No leftover space really. Just a thought...

Could maybe get something drop shipped.  Know a couple guys North of the lakes...

ghurd at neo dot rr dot com

[DanG]

Solar PV arrays love cold weather since cooler means more efficient, frigid weather boost can go a long way to making up for shortening days, but won't cure darkest days of winter, just X-out December and January from short days or cloudy weather. Just keep remembering all them long days of summer to ease the pain

If its daydream links you want, bzzt sorry, an Evergreen 102W panel @ $4.00 per watt before shipping just ruined the daydream mood for me. After sorting losses but before my costs I'm into the EBay PV cell thing for .40¢ per watt.

I just found $3.90 per watt cheapest new retail panel from my bookmarks, and cheapest 50W panel to compete against ebay 36-cell was $5.40 per watt...  Even with new ebay price at $1.50-per-watt ($75 against first 36-cell 50 watt panel with unused cells completely bogus untill connecting something) might teach "we with poor impulse control" that $75 or $100 more for glass, frame and sealing compounds is rightly called for each of our Ebay cull panels!

Standardizing a *feasible* ten-year minimum design without the the little shortcuts of convienience that seem to plauge DIY'rs would be a fine and worthy project, from aluminum extrusion supplier to exact glass specs, backing materials, blah blah blah.

Perhaps its time for a source of 55-gallon drums of EVA to surface and be purchased & divided between DIY'rs, gotta be cheaper then the silicone gel grease at $700 a drum I priced out but didn't purchase. EVA is heat cured I believe, wonder if just baking panel in sun (painted black?) would be enough to kick it

So, anyhow, me thinks most here are just not spending enough to build the ebay cells up, note, the material warranties on storebought panels are usually two to five years so they're not producing an indestructible product they feel comfortable to warranty forever...

[ghurd]

Most good factory PVs are 20 or 25 years for the warrenty.

'Good' is an opinion, I guess.

'Import' PVs, as in China or India, will soon be past $5/w I believe.

Most catalog dealers can not currently supply the PVs in their catalogs.

Internet dealer are worse with no warning of the shortage.

Those that warn of the shortage seem to be dishonest.

The US$3/W days are gone for the foreseeable future and longer.  $4 sounds like a good deal now.

Some or many PV manufacturers are warning PV prices will again go up in the next month or two.

Anyone thinking about PVs should get it together. Soon.

IMHO

Just 2 cents from a guy who orders skids and gets a dozen.

[nothing to lose]

"I don't like thin film. Personal opinion.  I could get you a good deal on a skid of them that DO NOT work!  They were not used much! Or long."

Hmm, is that for people who live in the dark anyway?

Perhaps mount them up there with my wind genny that don't work, kinda make them a matching set??

Would I use dead shorted batteries for these too

Sorry couldn't resist, I am in a good mood today and feeling humorous even if the jokes aren't actually funny.

So what would most likely be wrong with those Non-working thin films? Would it be hard to fix them somehow?

 Don't know if I could haul any or any border problems/duties etc. but I will be heading up that way also before too long.

If those non-working are cheap and no-one else wants them I might be interested if they can be fixed, but not trying to jump in front of anyone here.

[ghurd]

I'm feeling goofy too.

But those PVs seem used up.

Nothing really wrong to see.

They just don't work.  At all.

Some will do almost OK for short amps, others OK for open low volts.

Some are discolored (due to heat and poor mounting?).

Just poor chemistry maybe. Mostly US32s. Half under warrenty, but owners won't even bother.

I would not give half the AL frame scrap price.

That is why thin film is crap in my opinion.

Maybe someone who likes thin film amorphous silicon will buy a skid at half the retail?

Again, yes I am a dealer. Distributer. Installer. Or something.

No, I did NOT sell them. Ever.

[ghurd]

'them' being thin film PVs

[picmacmillan]

thanks ghurd and all for your thoughts...it seems odd that  in a time when alternative energy is the buzz word, that htere is not more options out there, leading back to better quality, and lower prices...thanks also for the heads up about the prices going higher due to shortages..i know a company that is just opening in the north, and i wonder if they can even get the stock if it was ordered?....pickster

[Volvo farmer]

Funny you should ask. I just dropped $8500 with these guys.

http://www.thesolar.biz/Our%20Complete%20Product%20Inventory.htm

Got a whole Outback power panel. AC/DC, breakers, PV combiner, 3.5KW 24V inverter, MX60 charge controller, lightning protection, GFI protection, etc, etc. Got 680W of commercial panels at $4.17 watt and eight Surrette L16s.

I saw you mention a trace c60. The MX60 is a way, way better charge controller. MPPT, can run panel votage much higher than battery voltage too. Rumor has it that Outback is  coming out with a W60 controller, especially suited for wind generators. This guy has the best price I could find on the net for the MX60 $460. These are real people, a small family owned business and the guy talked with me for about two hours on the phone to make sure I got everything I needed.

You might find panels less than USD $4 a watt but the market truly is volatile and I was glad to pay the .17 extra to get something in stock.

[henjulfox]

You could try www.partsonsale.com. Been a couple years since I've priced/bought PV panels but their prices were good then. For the other stuff, patience and E-bay have worked well for me.

-Henry

[JYL]

You may check "Batterries Expert" in Quebec, Canada.  They also do Wholesale so they may have something in Ontario.

They have a WEB site at www.batteriesexpert.net

If you call (I hope they speak English), they may have used stuff.  Last time I visited, they have several used "charge controller" and cheap inverter.

I never used them for Solar Panel or anything.  I purchase my replacement battery for UPS there since this is the only places I know where I can find them in "STORE" -- Right away ( 5 Km aways).

For the UPS Batteries, if this is any indication, It was actually cheaper in $CDN then what I see advertise on some others WEB site.  For example, the BB HR9-12 goes for CDN$21.00 including TPS, GST and CDN$5 for recycling.

The same batteries are advertise US$32 at www.apexbattery.com and US$34 at www.batteryweb.com.

[chux0r]

it seems odd that  in a time when alternative energy is the buzz word, that htere is not more options out there

Well, a silicon shortage is a silicon shortage.  The problem is that computer chip makers and PV makers want the same silicon, and that's a bidding war that the chip makers can win hands-down.  See, the computer chips need a relatively small amount of silicon, so they can afford to pay more for it... it's a smaller part of their bottom line.  But a PV cell is mostly made of silicon, so a large part of the cost is the material.  So the price of silicon plays a HUGE role in how much a solar panel costs.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1785515,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

I wonder if I can make a solar panel out of 2 dozen old 386 chips...

 -Chuck

[DanG]

With all due respect, advertising a 25-year warranty might sell alot of panels but limited warranty is not to be confused with power warranty. Seam, connections, glass etc. fail unexplicably after limited warranty expires you're at the mercy of the manufactuor, not your friendly dealor. And allowing known defect to continue untill power drops enough to 'power' warranty unit violates the maintenance provisions, etc. Claim denial means shipping costs both ways, plus repair if offered.

Some inspired-lawyer writings for y'all to muse...

Shell Solar: 2-year limited warranty on material & workmanship, peak power warranty of 90% at 10 and 80% at 25 years. Transferrable warranty.

http://www-static.shell.com/static/shellsolar/downloads/products/warranty_us.pdf

Sharp Solar: 1-year limited warranty on material & workmanship, power warranty same as above. Warranty transferable if modules convey with property.

http://solar.sharpusa.com/files/sol_dow_Module_war.pdf

Kyocera Solar: 1-year material or workmanship, 12-year 90% power, 80% to 25-years.

Warranty non-transferable.

http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/kc_warranty.pdf

BP Solar: 1 to 5-year material or workmanship; 10 or 12-year 90% power, 80% to 25-years. Warranty transferable if modules convey with property.

http://tinyurl.com/df54b

Schot Solar: 1-year material or workmanship, 10-year 90%, 20-year 80%.

http://tinyurl.com/8bnx6

[Dennis the bus dweller]

Hi

I would like to buy 4 of 5 hundred watts of used ( in good shape ) PV panels. I would like them to be 75 to 100 watts per panels but will concider as low as 50 watt panels. If any of you folks can help me that would be great.

Peace along the way

Dennis the bus dweller N.Y.

[ghurd]

Partsonsale

I needed a couple PVs not like I usually use.

The advertised price was good.

The phone price was $45 more!

They said I must be looking at an 'Old' web page.

Said OK, send them.

Found the same ones about $30 each cheaper at several other places that evening.

They had punched out ALL the knock-outs, wired a couple 14ga in.

The water tight connectors were for 3/8" wire.

That caused quite a few unnecessary time consuming headaches.

They did have the ones I needed in stock, but that was nearly a year ago.

The shipping cost was fair.

Just my experience with them is all

G-

[ghurd]

I would call all those 'good' PVs.

The ones with flat out 1 year or 5 year are the kind I was thinking about.

Saw some lately with a 90 DAY warranty.

[ghurd]

Looks like good prices for right now.

They are admiting what they are low on or out of, or have a good supply of.

G-

[Volvo farmer]

I bought a panel from partsonsale 5 years ago. They had the best prices on the net back in '99 and I had a good experience. I've occasionally looked at their website ever since and it seems like they're not as on top of things as they used to be. There was some sort of Christmas special still up on their website in March. Makes you wonder how up to date those panel prices are.

[ghurd]

The US is now importing considerable quantities of PVs from Russia.

I just find that strange somehow.

G-

[stevesteve]

Anyone know where you can get PV panels in the UK for a reasonable price? I have seen them going for about £5 (~$9 ish) per watt. That doesn't seem like much like good value.

Any ideas?

[ghurd]

Photowatt, division of Matrix Solar Technologies, delivers to the UK.

Good panels, maybe not the cheapest. Made in France with American cells I believe.

The PWX500 (49w) is listed at 307 Vat and shipping included (?). 6.25/w

A Solsum controller is 40 Vat and shipping included (that seems WAY too high).

Can't say how that relates price wise. No idea what % Vat is, or how bad you get killed with shipping costs. Thought they were both costly.