Author Topic: wire size  (Read 1902 times)

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garyc

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wire size
« on: August 22, 2007, 04:06:15 AM »
I have a 150 watt panel, 2500 inverter and 4 u2200 batteries. Can someone help me with the wire sizes I need to use. its 8 feet to the panels and six feet to the batteries from the inverter. I plan on adding two more batteries, as soon as I can find some. Also any suggestions on how to wire them and where to buy the connectors ect... would be a great help
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 04:06:15 AM by (unknown) »

Kevin L

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Re: wire size
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 12:13:40 AM »
What is your system voltage?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 12:13:40 AM by Kevin L »

garyc

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Re: wire size
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 12:21:05 AM »
my panel is 24v, the controller is a mppt, so my inverter is 12 to 115v with the 6v batteries arranged to 12v
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 12:21:05 AM by garyc »

luv2weld

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Re: wire size
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 07:15:05 AM »
Use the largest diameter wire you can afford. Since you don't have really

long runs, it shouldn't be too expensive. If it was my system, I wouldn't

go any smaller than 2 gauge. And run doubled wires from the batteries to the

inverter. For the connectors, check places that service trucks, (tractor/trailers).

They usually have all sizes, and should be fairly cheap. Hardware stores will

probably be more expensive.


"any suggestions on how to wire them"----what are you asking here????



  1. CAREFULLY !!!!
  2. series-parallel


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« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 07:15:05 AM by luv2weld »
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richhagen

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Re: wire size
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 12:24:41 PM »
This is just an opinion, and I am throwing this together in a hurry, make sure you do your homework so you don't burn your house down.


The way I see it you have several runs:


Panel to Mppt charge controller;


150 watt panel, if one assumes a maximum power rating at 24V for your 24V panel

(even though actually it should be a bit higher and therefore be fewer amps) then the

maximum amps would be about 150Watts/24 Volts, or 6.25 Amps.  If you plan to add more panels later, you should not calculate this run for the 150 Watts, but the ultimate capacity that you plan to install.  I fused my solar panel wire runs on the roof with a fuse that is sized over the panels maximum amps prior to combining parallel strings.  I also fused the main run down to my basement.


Here is how I combined the strings:





It is a simple box that I threw together for my system.  Commercial versions are now available as well.


Mppt charge controller to battery;


Your system is only 150 Watts right now, but as a matter of course, I would put a transmission line in place that is capable of handling the maximum output of the Mppt controller, and I would fuse it at the battery end.  Short circuiting a wire from a battery bank without a fuse in place can heat a wire red hot or throw sparks which can start a fire.  The calculation for the amps would be the Watts / Volts, where the Watts are the maximum watts of the Mppt Controller.


battery to inverter

This is the big conductor.  You have a 2500 Watt inverter pulling off of a 12V battery.  Your inverter probably has a surge capacity as well.  I would look at its maximum amp draw from the manual first.  Absent that, I would size the wire for at least one and a half times its rated power. 3750 watts / 12V = 312.5 Amps.

Again, regardless of the switch, fusing, or controller on the inverter

I would put a fuse at the battery side.  To not do so would be dangerous.  

A slow blow fuse here is probably a good idea as most inverters

have sizable capacitors that charge up and draw a lot of amps when first connected.  


Battery to Battery interconnects

This should be sized to handle the largest current to or from the battery bank. Since I fuse all wires from a battery bank, I make sure that the interconnects can handle more than the combined values of the fuses.  The fuses have to be the weak links.  


Here is an example of one of many wire size tables available on the web:

http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/data/wire-resistance.html

This looks about like what I recall from reading the NEC.

Another one is at:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

it appears to be rather conservative on the maximum amps for transmission. Conservative is good.


Just because someone posts something on the Web, doesn't mean it is correct.  Oversizing the conductors adds cost, but reduces resistance losses, especially in longer runs.  Always make sure that the fuse is the weak link.  A blown fuse generally is no big deal.  A melted or blown wire, or a fire is a much bigger

problem.


Here is a wire resistance calculator that I wrote and posted here a while back for individual copper conductors:

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/742/WIRECALC.exe

It is in VB and runs on Windows only, sorry if you are using another os )-:  

You can use it to estimate your power losses for different runs.  

« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 12:24:41 PM by richhagen »
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garyc

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Re: wire size
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 02:33:41 PM »
thank you for such an in dept summary. My next question was going to be if I needed an inverter fuse, but I think you answered that already. My panel is a BP and some of the specs are pmax 150,vmp34v,imp 4.3a,vdc 43v, are they saying is will produce only 4.3 amps to the battery instead of your estimated 6+ amps? I will used the charts you have suggested, but what wire would you suggest from the panel to the mppt 250 controller, keeping in mind that one day I may add a 100w panel. Also would the wire from the controller be the same size to the batteries?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 02:33:41 PM by garyc »

DamonHD

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Re: wire size
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 02:55:41 PM »
Just a side note: I think that mixing panel types for an MPPT may defeat its purpose, since the panel may well not real their maximum power at the same (voltage) point.


I am expecting to build a (430W) MPPT system and don't expect to add new controllers to the same controller: if I have to expand it I'll be getting an additional controller.


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 02:55:41 PM by DamonHD »
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kenputer

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Re: wire size
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2007, 03:37:41 PM »
Can you use the 24 volt panel to charge 12 volt battery bank?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 03:37:41 PM by kenputer »

richhagen

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Re: wire size
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 09:25:58 AM »
Your panel is rated at 4.3 Amps.  4.3 Amps times 34 Volts = 146 Watts.  In my opinion, the wire from the panel to the MPPT controller should be able to handle more the sum of the short circuit current from all of the parallel panels (or strings of panels connected in series).  The fuse should be the next size up from the sum of the currents at maximum power of the panels or strings of panels actually connected in parallel.


If it is a long run you may determine that a larger wire size is justified because of the reduction in power lost during this run.   The power lost in a conductor (wire) is equal to the square of the current multiplied by its resistance.  The power moved through a conductor is equal to the current multiplied by the voltage.   These are the rules of the physics of the matter.   Using a larger wire size will reduce the power lost in the wiring.  It is a trade off of ease of installation and cost, vs. the losses once you are above the minimum wire size required to move the maximum current.  This is also the reason why it is advantagous to choose a higher voltage for a higher power system.  If you double the system voltage, the current required to move a given amount of power is cut in half, and for the same size of wire, the losses in the wire are cut to one fourth.  Although it is AC, the same rules apply, which is why utilities move power around at 300 thousand volts or so to move electrical power between cities and regions.  Rich

« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 09:25:58 AM by richhagen »
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garyc

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Re: wire size
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 10:53:52 PM »
On the solar panel label is says... fuse 15amp. Does this mean that I should use a 15 amp fuse? Because if I do the math I only need a 6 or 8 amp fuse
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 10:53:52 PM by garyc »