Solar Garage Suggestions

[solarjimmy]

Hi everyone,

I'm a litle new to this so I was just after some advise and suggestions as to what to do. I don't have a hugh farm like some of your beautiful photos but I am trying remote living, but in the city. I love to play round with these things but most of the time the just on't fit or work in the city so I thought I'd try and have a 'remote garage'. The basic premise is make make garage self sufficiant. I have put what I have done so far on a blog so I can get some help and advise

Solar Garage bloject

but as the place I put it is a little new so not many visitor so I though I'd come here. As you can see from my blog I have pannels, battery and charge controler and a few little things attached to it but before taking it to the next level I wanted to know if I am on the right track and what I should do next.

So I guess I would if you have a moment

1. I wou'ld love some advise on what you think it is like so far.Solar Garage bloject
   
2. What is the best Voltage, wiring etc for this size project.
   
3. Best sources of low usage lightng and cooling (fans etc)
   
4. Upping the batteries and pannels. What do you recommed? I hope you can add comments here or at my blog.
   

[Volvo farmer]

That's a pretty neat start. Here are my suggestions...

Where do you want to eventually end up with this project and how much are you willing to spend? Some of your "dream list" items are going to require a significant dollar investment to make them go, especially the refrigerator.

If you want to scale this system up to start making more power, I'm afraid that a lot of your current components are going to be unuseable. That Kmart battery was probably around $30 but it's not designed for deep cycles and is inappropriate for a solar energy system. Eventually, you will want true deep cycle batteries, a pair of T105s would probably run $125 or so.

I imagine at 30 watts, your panels are the amorphous type. If you ever want to get serious and put 100 watts or more of panels up, these little 10W panels are not going to be helpful in the new array. You seem to be going the right direction with the charge controller since it is rated for 300W.

I realize the conundrum you are in. You seem to be on a tight budget but want to make this project work. It just seems a shame to be spending money on things that won't serve you well should you want a bigger system. Solar is not a cheap hobby if you want to make enough power to run things like fans and pumps for any length of time.

I built a little system for my garage. I can run lights, a little air compressor, some 110V power tools and a radio. I used scaleable parts and the cost was around $1000. You could start out with a system half this size for about $500 and still be able to scale it up when you got more money. Here's a list and general prices if you're interested, panels might be a little more expensive nowadays.

2. X 80W panels       $700
   
4. X T105 battery     $250
   
1500. W inverter      $100
      
      

Charge controller   $70

Wiring, fuses, etc  $50

Good luck!

[Kwazai]

last cost figures I saw put PV at about .12$/kwh, not including grid tie. is that number still approximately correct?

Mike

[zap]

Hey Mike, I've seen a few people post pv costs in "kwh".  Although just a matter of where you place the decimal point, I think the most popular comparison is "price per watt", the prices you've been seeing seem high. AFAIK

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/2/18/41025/4835

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/2/8/184052/7925

http://www.solarbuzz.com/Moduleprices.htm

[ghurd]

The solarbuzz thing has me kind of shocked.

Jan '02 $5.81 per watt.  Feb '06 $5.32 per watt.

Panels I sold complete (PV, controller, fuses, wire, brackets, AND labor to install) back in '02, now cost more than that for just the panel.

Part could be the move to larger PVs and discountinuing smaller PVs. Bigger is cheaper.

Those are nice panels. I expect you will be happy with the outcome of the system.

Don't forget to leave a lot of space under them for air circulation. 6" minimum.

Layed flat on the roof will burn them up.

G-

[ghurd]

For #2, I would go 12V for cheaper parts.

Bigger wire is better. Maybe 10 gauge romex or UF style? Cheap and available.

For #3, 12VDC CFLs make the most light for the amps.  But an inverter will allow the use of standard home use CFLs.  One way will be cheaper than the other, depending on how many lights are needed.

Muffin fans throw some air in a small place. Good if you are sitting in one place, not moving around the garage.  Cheap and low power.

For #4, a marine battery (not starting or dual purpose) will give longer life.  More panel is always good, but there is a balance between panel, battery and load.

They can't say no if you don't ask them.

Call it a "battery charger", not "a self sustaining off grid renewable energy power generation and storage system".  Sounds dangerous?

Battery chargers are not frightening. People fear what they don't understand.

The council probably won't think twice about 'a silly battery charger'.  

G-

[zap]

Yeah I'm not sure how accurate solarbuzz's surveys are, I usually glance at that site to get a quick "glimpse" of prices.  You can ALWAYS find cheaper although not necessarily better.

I agree, they are nice looking panels.

Solarjimmy you don't say where you live but you do mention Kmart, evaporative cooling, Dick Smith, and a city where you can't just toss up a 12' wind generator so I'll assume your an Aussie and I'll wager that within 30 miles(50 kilometers?) of you good deep cycle batteries are thrown out/recycled just about everyday.  Any golf courses nearby?  Use the "Google search the board" under the "Menu" of this site for hints on where to find usable batteries.

Nice system so far.

[zap]

"They can't say no if you don't ask them."

Yep, a phrase I've heard all my life in the construction industry... "It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission" : )

[Bruce S]

Nice Blog;

  Unlike a few that I've tried to follow, this one seems to nicely put into.

The one thing that I could think of for the cooling part as an evacuation fan. Find an old VCR/VCP and pull out the loading motor. These will start running on as little as 2.5Vdc. Find a small 3 blade off one of the old 6" fan and marry the two. Then go find one of those cheap lawn solar lights and raid the panel. As the sun shines the fan will start and run. I have one as an attic fan in a small old powered roof and it's amazing how much air can be moved out with one of these.

The 120mm computer fans work great as a cooling fan and if you have the skills can be made to work as air chillers as well.

Cheers!

Bruce S

[Kwazai]

www.solarhouse.com   has a little different tack to pricing- mostly in terms of mortgages and state incentives for a whole house system.

Mike

[richhagen]

I like the panels, they are poly crystaline encapsulated glass panels, probably similar in construction to panels carrying a 25 year warranty.  You should get a lifetime of service from them if you protect the wiring connections from weather.  Until I saw them I was thinking that they were the thin film amorphous type panels that I have had bad luck with as they age. (the film layers on the back of the glass deteriorate)  The price per watt was high because they are small panels, but I think you made a good choice on the construction.  In the future, you will need more to provide the power to all the things you are dreaming of.  The battery will not last, but I guess it was a spur of the moment thing.  As someone else mentioned, golf cart batteries are relatively cheap, even if new, and if you can get old ones for nothing or next to it from a course then even better, and they seem to last a while in these types of systems.  The sun won't shine everyday, so make sure that you have low voltage disconnect(s) to protect the batteries.  If you have more than one, and the voltage is adjustable, you can set the disconnects to disconnect the luxuries before the necesities.  Rich Hagen  

[ghurd]

The panels look like British Petroleum or General Electric to me.

All I have seen like that are made in Asia (China), but the quality is very nice on both.  Far superior to the more common Malaysian or many other amorphous silicone panels.

Part of the higer cost is poly crystaline.  Always a far better deal, IMHO.

The cost did not seem out of line to me.

G-

[solarjimmy]

Thanks for some of the feedback. To save any confusion the panels are 12 volt 10 Watt BP Polycrysal ones so they should be good for 25 years.

 I did look at a few of the computer cooling fan but the always had a higher consumption that other fans so I steered clear. I'll go back and have a look and a play with them.

Sounds like the best thing to do for the moment is to upgrade the batteries, then just by more panels.

One thing I was particularly keen on finding out is good 12 volt lighting. I have a few LED spot lights but to be honest, a candle produces more light. Maybe it I had 50ish of them could I light the room.  Are there any other good low consumption lights for 12 volts.

Also should I just give up on 12 volts and get an inverter for 240/110 AC? One thing that has been holding me back in doing this is it is a rare occasion when manufactures of mains voltage appliances care about low consumption, where it is almost always thought of in 12 volt appliances. Any suggestions?

[ghurd]

Why upgrade the battery if the one you have is working?  That can come later.

LEDs are NOT good for room lighting.  And I sell LED bulbs.

A 12V CFL (compact fluorescent light) makes a ton of light for the power it uses.

Just an example. No connection to me. Nice bulb, but it has not been German made in years, it's Chinese now like everything else.

http://store.solar-electric.com/sol12voldcli.html

Get an inverter either way.  

I like Vector for cheap and decent.  400W charges most tools, but it's not going to run a lathe...

G-

[ruddycrazy]

I've got my shed hooked up for solar where my 24 volt array is fed by 8-65 watt poly's into a plasmatronics regulator then into 400 amp/hours worth of batteries and a 1,700 watt inverter. The other array is a bank of nife batteries fed from 1-80 watt poly and is fed to an Oatley's shunt regulator. I've got the nife batteries hooked up to 8-12 volt cfcl's I got from Jaycar, they are rated at 20 watts and they draw well over an amp each. Had I known Oatley's sold a 240 volt cfcl inverter that can power 3 lights I would of gone down that track as the replacement 12 volt lights are $20 each where the 240 volt one's are only a couple of dollars. As I spent a fair bit setting up the 12 volt lights I'll let them go untill they burn out but sofar they've gone 2 years and are just starting to go black on one of the coils. My recommendation would be go for the oatley's inverter and get elcheapo cfcl's from the supermarket, that way you won't spend a small fortune setting up the 12 volt cfcl's.

Cheers Bryan

[Jeff7]

On the subject of an inverter - if you're going to be running motors, I've read that it's a good idea to use a pure sine wave inverter. The stepped sine wave of most inverters can cause motors to overheat, or in some cases not work at all, as they're designed to work with smooth sine waves.

[solarjimmy]

By Upgrade, I meant buy more and next time better ones. But thanks.

[solarjimmy]

Yep, Sydney. Good guess. Do you do parties?