Thin-Film PV's

[Dan M]

The buzz about thin film (or printed) pv cells persists, but I wondered if anyone has heard or found any concrete information as to the timeframe for availability?

I keep hearing things about these being a "fraction of the cost in $/watt" of traditional silicon wafer cells.  1/10 is a fraction, but so is 99/100. Any real info on the projected cost?

NanoSolar, HelioVolt, and Miasole are three of the players, maybe there are others as well.

-Dan

[powerbuoy]

It seems to be that a typical thin film panel is currently selling at $3.50 per Watt. There is actually a ton of players out there jumping on the wagon. It seems to be though, that they lend themselves more to solar farm applications (at least currently). Their efficiency can be found from 5-8% and this requires at least double the roof space compared to conventional solar panels. Double the space also means, double the number of panels, double the connectors, bases, wiring etc.

People often forget about the litlle expenses that can add up quickly.

Powerbuoy

[richhagen]

My experience with earlier thin film panels has been less than pleasant as far as there life expectancy.  New panels probably fare better than the early ones, but I still have concerns about that.  This also affects the long term costs of the system.  There may be cheaper panels available now in thin film, but I think - as of right now - it will still be difficult to beat the conventional mono and poly crystaline panels as far as value related to the long term costs of the system.  Just an opinion, Rich

[rippersoftware]

Here in Iowa we have PowerFilm.  They have created the rollup solar panel.  Their panels can also be bonded to material such as tent fabric.

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/index.htm

RipperSoftware

[Bruce S]

RS;

 So that's where they are made!! a buddy out riding his 'bent trike in CO has one of those. VERY nice, high quality. He got one of them before they became more expensive than they are now.

The foldables workout to be very storeable and he's carrying one now to keep his Ipod and mobile phone charged.

Do they have a seconds outlet store? :-D

Bruce S

[Dan M]

OK, maybe I'm just mis-informed, but the more I look around, it appears that any promise of reduced price panels has gone up in smoke.

I have a panel here, that the company I worked for purchased around 1995.  If I remember correctly, the box still has a COD tag for $278.

I believe it's a unisolar 48w panel.  It's about 12" wide and about 48" long.  It has a 1" deep anodized aluminum frame, and a coating that's supposedly good for 60 mph hail stone impacts.

It didn't come with a charge controller, but did have a terminal box on the back with a diode.

Now for the rant:

The entire 1995 US solar cell production would fit in the back of a truck (ok a really big truck, or maybe a boxcar, or maybe several boxcars) but ANYWAY, production has gone up like crazy since then and new production methods are supposed to drastically reduce the cost/watt.  I feel like the popularity of alternative energy has made this a sellers market, while inverters are getting cheaper, batteries are getting better, it seems prices for solar cells are making somebody rich.

I guess I'll stick to homebrew wind or passive solar.

Sorry, my prescription ran out yesterday,

-Dan

[DamonHD]

http://www.solarbuzz.com/ (SolarBuzz) shows some pricing trends, and just how quickly new production capacity is being brought on line.

(And now IBM is getting involved I guess they will hook you on free cells and then consult you into poverty...!)

Note that lots of new capacity isn't in the US and lots of consumption isn't in the US, which means that the rest of the world may be seeing more falls than the US.  (And the USD currency weakness won't be helping with domestic US pricing either.)

Rgds

Damon

[spinningmagnets]

I am be excited to hear about any major breakthrough that makes solar electricity cheaper, but my experience suggests that any "new gadget" will sell for a price that is described as "what the market will bear". Early adopters are well-known for paying a premium for having the latest hot stuff, so it may take a while before a cheaper Watt-per-dollar PV panel design actually translate into lower prices.

Just my $.02

[TAH]

I have had 2500 watts of thin film panels in use for a year and a half now. They cost me about half of the cheapest silicon panels that I could find. They were also a lot less than the various used silicon panels that I bought on Ebay. I have not seen any decrease in output yet. They are made in the US and have a 20 year output warranty. The cost right now on these is $.05 less per watt than when I bought. The ouptut has averaged double what the local alternate energy mafia calculated so far. They produce 50% of the rated output in lower light conditions when my silicon panels output nothing. They output as much as 110% of the rated output and the sunlight energy of the upper midwest is not even supposed to be 1kWt per sq meter. I am very happy with my thin film panels and plan on getting more.

[DamonHD]

What brand?  I'm using UniSolar ES62 and now I've improved their location and angle I'm very happy with them.

Rgds

Damon

[TAH]

Mine are EPV. They were much less than I could find Unisolars.

[DamonHD]

I'm looking to get some Sanyo HIT panels for a mix of mono and amorphous, and because they generate ~200W/msq, and my space is very limited.  Expensive though.

Rgds

Damon

[TAH]

If you get a high output type of panel like that and mount it on a fixed surface without any tracking at all will they output as much as a thin film mountted in the same place?

[DamonHD]

Hi,

I don't know.

In full 1kW/msq insolation this has the highest energy output per msq that I can find, presumably mainly because of the monocrystaline part.

I hope that the rest of it is giving me better response in low/diffuse light than I would see with just monocrystaline, but it is a bit of a gamble.

Rgds

Damon

[TAH]

I would try to find what the rated output is at a lower loght level like .5 or .8 KW pM. Unless you live near the equator and use a dual axis tracking mount there will be very few hours that even get close to 1KW during the year.

[DamonHD]

Sure, that's just a nominal rating for comparison.

Yesterday, for example, with quite heavy cloud, I was getting less than 20% of the nominal rating of my panels it appears.  20W of mono plus 62W of triple-j thin-film.

Rgds

Damon

[TAH]

It is the standard rating but the actual output comparison like the one done here: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?isnumber=4059868&arnumber=4060152&count=337&a
mp;index=282

The overall output can be as much as 20% more for the same standard rating.