battery deep cycle?

[nick02]

Now I have to get a battery. At cosco I found a merine deep cycle 700mca battery for $43

There was a 63 pound golf cart battery too for $48. I have no Idea what i'am talking about when it comes to batterys. but I would like to know what one to get.

thanks

[zmoz]

What are you using it for? The cranking amps are of no use for deep cycle batteries. What you want to look for is amp hours. You probably will want the most you can afford. Golf cart batteries are 6v, you'll need two of them if you want 12 volts.

[nick02]

I wanna run a 600w -150w power inverter with it. and i'am useing a ametek 38v turbine.

[Bach On]

CCA is cold cranking amps. That is of no use to you for lights, inverter, etc. Look for Amp Hours. The golf battery is more of a deep cycle battery and will generally have a higher amp hour reserve. It is intended for the purpose you've indicated. It has heavier plates that provide more reserve capacity. The other battery you mentioned is more of a hybrid - it has thicker plates than a car battery, but thinner ones that the golf battery.

You'll probably be better off in the long run to buy a true deep cycle battery for the purpose you've indicated. As has been mentioned, you'll need two of those golf batteries to get 12 volts.

B.O.

Think

[ghurd]

Sam's has the 6v golf cart batteries for $48 ($96 per pair).  Good choice if you can afford it.

A true deep cycle usually does not list CCA, CA, MCA.

A marine 'starting' battery is a car battery.  A marine 'trolling' battery is more deep cycle.  

The trolling batteries at Wally-World now list CA... I wonder what that means?

The group 24 'was' 85ah ($39), group 27 'was' 100ah ($54).

A pair of 6v golf cart is about 210ah, but they go for a lot of years if they are not abused.

AH is amp-hours. Amps times hours.  A 72ah will put 12 amps out for 6 hours (12X6=72) or 6 amps for 12 hours (6X12=72), or 2a for 36 hours, 1a for 72 hours...

The numbers are simplified, but you get the idea. It says how much 'electric' is in it.

FYI- PepBoys auto parts has a 400w Vector inverter this week for $22.50 after a $5 mail in rebate, if you have them local.

G-

[nothing to lose]

Along with the info on amp hours others have provided, it is normally figured over about a 20 hour discharge time also. I avoid batteries that list Cold cranking Amps (CCA) myself.

I haven't bought one in about a year now, but Wal-mart/Sams Club has a 12V deepcycle rated for 115amp hours for about $55 unless things have changed since I bought my last one. These have been doing me fine, I have 3 of them, but I don't have them in constant fulltime use, but I do use and even abuse them alot. So far I like them fine myself. They still work good, but who knows for how long they will live?

As for the 6V golf cart batteries, I don't know which would be better, those or these 12V ones. Probably 2 of the 6V, but then again you have to add 2 at a time.

[Chagrin]

Everything I've read says golf cart batteries are better (than run-of-the mill deep cycle), notably due to the higher amount of antimony that they contain. Not all deep cycle batteries are alike, though, and if it's an "L-16" deep cycle that would be the preferred battery. I doubt that's what you're looking at at Wal-Mart though...

Standard ranking, in order:

 - Forklift battery

 - L-16 deep cycle

 - golf cart

 - solar gel cells (pricy)

 - telephone cells

 - RV/marine batteries

 - car batteries

[Tyler883]

I've notice that in Canada at large store like Canadian Tire, the newer depp cycle batteries are NOT labeled with an "AH" ie amp*hour capacity. Instead, they refer to something like a 'reserve time' that is typicall 6 hours or less.

Has anyone come across this rating system before? I can only guess that a 6 hour rating is based on a standardized discharge current, but I dont know what that might be.

[DanG]

Remember the whole amperage of a battery array should not be used except for calculating the percentages you can obtain work from without damaging the cells.

Text lifted (with thanks) off of...

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

A battery "cycle" is one complete discharge and recharge cycle. It is usually considered to be discharging from 100% to 20%, and then back to 100%. However, there are often ratings for other depth of discharge cycles, the most common ones are 10%, 20%, and 50%. You have to be careful when looking at ratings that list how many cycles a battery is rated for unless it also states how far down it is being discharged. or example, most golf cart batteries are rated for about 550 cycles to 50% discharge - which equates to about 2 years.

How depth of discharge affects cycle life on batteriesBattery life is directly related to how deep the battery is cycled each time. If a battery is discharged to 50% every day, it will last about twice as long as if it is cycled to 80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%.

Obviously, there are some practical limitations on this - you don't usually want to have a 5 ton pile of batteries sitting there just to reduce the DOD. The most practical number to use is 50% DOD on a regular basis. This does NOT mean you cannot go to 80% once in a while. It's just that when designing a system when you have some idea of the loads, you should figure on an average DOD of around 50% for the best storage vs cost factor.

[Psycogeek]

A comment. the above is good stuff.

from experience i have learned this stuff that might prove usefull.

Lead acid batteries go to heck if they dont STAY charged too, something about them "sulfating", like i care what it is called, i just realized to late, that letting my car battery drift down was killing it. (i dont drive much for the "environment")

SO

add to the horrible charge/discharge life of a Lead Acid, and tack on the death from staying discharged to it :-(  and prefer that the battery be charged, you know in that fantasy world :-)

now that i keep the LA batteries charged properly i am getting MANY more years out of them, then the former stupid way i dealt with them.

some gell cell info i learned (also the hard way)

overcharging these creatures causes bubbles in the darn gel (electrolyte) and they never leave.  and the further you discharge them (or any LA) the less cycles you get, as bad as 20 cycles for full discharges.

so with gell cells the same thing is true, you want to keep them charged, and the charge control is even more important (bubbles).

then i learned (i did not want to know) that they ship the lead and acid off to 3rd world countries to "recycle" the materials. it was a few years ago, but they showed this village living in its usual squaler conditions, with a acid creek and lead lined children.  it was not a good thing to do to people.

i just thought i would comment, this stuff ALL sucks, NIMHY and LI-ION are much more expencive, but they love to be discharged and charged.

there really is no totally practical way to store human type energies, without caveats.

 

[ghurd]

'Reserve Minutes' usually(?) is how many minutes the battery will supply a 20 or 25 amp load.  'X' reserve minutes at 20 amps, 'Y' reserve minutes at 25 amps.

AH is generally at the 20 hour rate. Reserve Minutes is a much faster rate, lowering the calculated amp hours.

No, I can't convert one to the other with any accuracy.

No, I don't know why they want to keep everyone confused.

G-

[thunderhead]

NiMH is claimed to be "environmentally friendly", but the metal that forms the hydride is a rare earth element, normally lanthanum, which is poisonous.  It's just not as poisonous as cadmium.  It does cost about $5/kg, mind.

Lithium is poisonous, causing kidney failure, and also psychoactive, of course.  The other reagents in Li-ion batteries are organic solvents, and like most organic solvents they are carcinogenic and great polluters, especially of groundwater.

The only battery chemistry I'm aware of that is truly environmentally friendly would be a version of the Edison cell with caustic soda as the electrolyte.  Sadly, they are high-maintenance, need watering quite a bit, and they are not terribly efficient - returning only 60% or so of the energy used in charging them.

But the principle reagents - nickel, iron, sodium hydroxide - are cheap, plentiful, and unlikely to do your environment much harm, since they form compounds that are pretty well found everywhere on the planet.  Sodium hydroxide is about the worst, in that its corrosive, but if exposed to air it absorbs carbon dioxide quite quickly and ends up as a solution of washing soda.

The genuine Edison battery contains lithium hydroxide, which is poisonous (and psychoactive).

[richhagen]

I read somewhere back that in Granite City, IL and Madison IL, they had a company nearby called National Lead, which used to reclaim lead from batteries.  Apparently a convenient way to dispose of the slag and waste was to use it along with slag from a nearby steel mill to gravel alleys.  It caused a bit of a stir some years back.  Something about health impact on youngsters.  Rich

[Tyler883]

Cadmium is one of the hazardous materials (along with lead based solder) that the European Union is going to ban on July 1, 2006. From that date forward, if you want to sell to the EU, all countries and manufacturers must comply.

I have heard that there are exemptions, but they are few and far between.

[nothing to lose]

Thanks.

 I was figuring it would be more by manufactorer on the deepcycles and golf cart batteries rather they were close to equal or not, I'm probably wrong it was just my thoughts. Kinda like Wal-mart/Sams I figure the 2 would be about equal, but of course a trojan far better that either of those.

[Psycogeek]

so no more Ni-Cads in europe?

Were likely to follow that, california first.