Author Topic: battery 20amphr ratings  (Read 1571 times)

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nothing to lose

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battery 20amphr ratings
« on: March 08, 2005, 06:48:02 AM »
Batteries are rated at 20 hours for most amp hours.


So depending on the battery a 100amp hour deepcycle should give you 100amp hours total over a 20 hour time period. That would be 5amps per hour discharge rate times 20 hours. If you run it hard for 3 hours though it may only give you a total of 75amps, 25amps per hour times 3 hours. So you lose 25amps available power from that rating.

Something like that and varies by battery, but normally figured over a 20hour period.

 I saw a chart for it from a battery website awhile back but can't find it now. Showed the power we should expect from the battery over various hours of discharge rates, but the amp hours shown on the battery were figured at 20hrs and alot higher than you would get draining it in just 3 hours.


On the 20hour amp ratings, I also got to thinking about spacing out my loads a bit now for more power from the same size battery banks. Don't know if it helps or not, but I figure when easily done and convient run things one at a time. Sort of spread out the load for a longer time at less amps than all at once at high amps, even though my batteries and inverter could handle everything at one time fine.


For example, my coffee pot is about 1500watts or 125 amps at 12V. Lets say my aircompressor is the same thing. Running both at the same time I am drawing 250amps per hour (if they both actually run continously that long). If my battery bank is 1,000amp hours rated over 20 hours, then that's a 50amps per hour rating for the most power. I am drawing 5 times that if I make coffe and fill the compressor at the same time for an hour straight. I probably only have about a 700-800 amphr rating on the same battery bank  at 4hrs (probably even less). So I could have 1000amps at 50amp per hour over 20 hours or maybe 700amps at 250amps per hour for less than 3 hours.

 Now what I am thinking here is how much power in amp hours will I actaully lose if I run everything at once for that 250 amps per hour compared to making coffee first at 125amps then when that's done fill the aircompressor at the other 125amps per hour.

 Spreading it out this way for a longer period of lower amps gets closer to the 20 hour rating, even though I am still more than double the rated 50amps I am far less than the 5 times if running everything at once. Of course these two items only run about 10-15 minutes each, but still how does that effect the total amp hours of the battery bank if running them at the same time 4-6 different times durring the day?

 That would add up to the 250amps for one hour, but spread out over time not all at once.


In the above example those two high power items only run about 10-15 minutes each probably, but what about adding things like a clothes washer and other high demand items also. If drawing power from the battery bank fast like that reduces the total amps hours it will produce, then how much power are we losing when we run several high power items at once for shorter times?


Even though I have a 5,000 watt inverter and I think they are supposedly more effceint when run near full power output, what is the effect on the battery bank in lost amp hours when doing so? Will spreading out the load like say making coffee, then filling the air compressor, then washing the clothes add amp hours to the battery bank (availble for the entire day) and more than compensate for the less than efficent use of the inverter at lower loads. Or would drawing high loads for shorter times be better and average out durring the day.


I am thinking smaller loads spread at durring the day would be far better. Also this is figuring high amp hour battery banks like 1,000 or above of course.

 For those with the small banks (like statring out) would running smaller loads over longer times also help get the most amp hours total. Like 200amphr bank and 300watt inveters running 12amp loads onger compared to shorter 25amp loads.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 06:48:02 AM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: battery 20amphr ratings
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2005, 09:16:58 AM »
More spread out will get more amp hours.

AH goes up as the amps go down.  AH goes down as the amps go up.

I can't find a chart now either.


Its non linear. If its a 100ah @ 20h rate, maybe its 110ah@ 40h, and 130ah@ 80h. Grabed those numbers out of the blue- they just show what I mean.


I think it helps to use the heavier loads when it is windy (sunny for solar).

With a 1000w load and the windmill making 500w, the battery only supplies 500w (instead of 1000w), so the effective AH goes up... And the 500w straight from the windmill is not subject to the 10% battery losses. That is a 50w savings right there.

And the effective AH went up. So the batteries are more full than they would have been if the clothes washer is run at 2:00PM, instead of windless sundown (?).


Observation. I fish. On breezy or windy days fishing it seems the wind really dies down around sundown every time.  I fight the wind all day, but the boat ride back is often smooth as glass.  Then 2 hours later the wind picks up to blow camp fire sparks everywhere.  Or sunup water is smooth as glass, but after breakfast the wind comes.  It happens so regularly there must be a good explaination. Never thought about why.


G-

« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 09:16:58 AM by ghurd »
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elvin1949

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Re: battery 20amphr ratings
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 10:19:22 PM »
sea breeze

dirt and water gain and lose

heat at different rates.

later

elvin
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 10:19:22 PM by elvin1949 »

ghurd

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Re: battery 20amphr ratings
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 06:50:33 AM »
Inland on small lakes maybe 5-10 miles long, 1/2 to 1 mile wide. 400 miles from the Atlantic.

I wouldn't think enough water around to change the wind.

Did wonder about equalibrium. Being in the fringe between sun and no sun.

G-
« Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 06:50:33 AM by ghurd »
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nothing to lose

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Re: battery 20amphr ratings
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2005, 02:29:55 PM »
I was keeping in mind myself, use the power as it's being made for the most gain and least loses. Just the battery loads though is what I was talking about I geuss.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 02:29:55 PM by nothing to lose »

Psycogeek

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Re: battery 20amphr ratings
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2005, 12:28:16 AM »
i was trying to figure out ways myself to "balance a load"

there must be a way to cut off certian high consumption devices, until the overall load drops.


like if electric heat is on (resistive type), it could dump for Minutes, while some other load was heavy, without any loss to overall heating.


items that are "charged" like air compressor, could cut out also, as long as they will hard start, there is no immediate nessisity of these items, when the load is high in the rest of the house, they could just wait.


air conditioners and freezers, would have to be "cycled" properly, they do Not at all like to be restarted right after a shutdown, they need at least a few minutes after a shutdown to restart without major power use and bad hard starting of the motor.


or

the reverse, when the generation device is functioning a load is more likly to turn on.


the simplest method i could think of is voltage drop.

if the voltage was way down, on the batteries, be it from a load, or the lack of power generation, a relay would suspend a high power item.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2005, 12:28:16 AM by Psycogeek »

bill541

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Re: battery 20amphr ratings
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2005, 02:15:22 PM »
Here is a short article I wrote for a friends web site, it should help you answer the questions you have about Ah capacity over discharge time and temperature.


http://www.windpowerunlimited.com/batteries/Amp_Hours.htm


-Bill-

« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 02:15:22 PM by bill541 »