Author Topic: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes  (Read 6744 times)

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DamonHD

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Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« on: July 23, 2007, 11:48:00 AM »
Hi,


I have a fairly new 40Ah gel SLA (12V) at the moment, and was hoping to parallel it with (say) a 100Ah or 140Ah of the same construction and voltage etc (and from the same manufacturer).


My supplier says I shouldn't do it: is he right?


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 11:48:00 AM by (unknown) »
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AbyssUnderground

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2007, 06:06:55 AM »
Yes he is right in most respects. If you parallel them, you take more current from one battery than the other, correct? But when it comes to charging, you risk overcharging the smaller battery and undercharging the bigger one. It is best to keep both batteries seperate unless you have some sort of split charge system in place.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 06:06:55 AM by AbyssUnderground »

Flux

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 06:40:41 AM »
Yes in theory he is correct.


In real life if you are sensible it will be ok. These things tend to share current in relation to their capacity. In this case I would advise you to connect the load and charging to the main battery and just link the small one in parallel with short leads.


As always you will get conflicting advice so you are no better off for asking the question.


Flux

« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 06:40:41 AM by Flux »

DamonHD

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 07:06:05 AM »
Ah, no, I feel better already for the advice offered.


Yes, I think that the 'link the smaller battery' via short leads idea sounds reasonable to me.


After all, if the chemistry and construction is the same then other than getting voltages equalised before I connect everything up, why would I expect things to get too far out of whack?


Rgds


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« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 07:06:05 AM by DamonHD »
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TomW

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2007, 09:10:49 AM »
Damon;


I use a mixed bank that contains 8 Trojan 105 [220 AH 6 volt] and 4 SLA gel cells [115 AH 12 volt] in a 24 volt setup.


Probably not "ideal" but certainly works for me.


Bottom line, in my opinion, is that you use what you have / can afford. Best method is probably to buy all the same batteries at the same time. This is not always practical for most of us with limited financial resources.


In my case, I am careful not to "cook" the bank since I mixed types and capacities of batteries. When it was just the Trojans I did not worry about ramming a bit of over voltage into them because I could top those up on water, not so with the sealed units.


My biggest concern would be to be sure the 2 "sets" are at the same voltage so no current surges occur when you make the initial connection.


A huge draw or load could cause physical damage to the batteries.


An easy way to assure they are equal on voltage would be to connect the negative leads together then use something like an automotive tail light between the sets on the positive lead. This will limit the current to what the bulb uses. When the lamp stops glowing you know the batteries are at the same voltage and you can make your main connection safely.


Wear safety gear like glasses, gloves and old clothes and keep a jug of water on hand to flush any spills should you have a mishap. Or a friend ready with the hose to hose you and the area down should a spill arise.


Do not take battery safety lightly.


Good Luck.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 09:10:49 AM by TomW »

DamonHD

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2007, 09:56:01 AM »
Hi,


Thanks, good advice!


I'm pretty motivated by safety (old engineers vs bold engineers, etc)!


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 09:56:01 AM by DamonHD »
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AbyssUnderground

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 10:35:38 AM »
Surging isn't a problem. When it comes to jump starting your car, what do you do? You connect a good battery to a flat one. Lots of voltage difference there. When you connect it, yes you may get a spark, but the voltage quickly rises in the dead battery meaning the surge is so quick it wouldn't affect anything. You may get an initial surge of hundreds of amps but its so quick (milliseconds) its not a problem for decently sized cable. Seconds later is down to under 100A.


(Read this on a website by the way, and it gave some maths too but I don't remember it. I'll try and dig the site out and post the link here.)

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 10:35:38 AM by AbyssUnderground »

DamonHD

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 01:25:31 PM »
Thanks!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 01:25:31 PM by DamonHD »
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TomW

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 01:51:43 PM »
Ok, more or less matched batteries and I agree.


However, how does your blanket statement apply to a guy with a dozen 200 AH batteries that are fully charged and he connects them to a single 100 AH battery that is discharged? Can you say catastrophic failure?


You really need to be careful making statements like this.


Only reason I am responding is someone could get hurt with this advice.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 01:51:43 PM by TomW »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2007, 03:22:04 PM »
The voltage would rise very quickly meaning the current going into it would be very low by the time the millisecond surge is over. So yes I believe it would apply and if I remember correctly there was a similar example on the website I heard this on (which I have still not yet found unfortunately)


And yes I agree the advice isn't all that great and that caution should always be taken.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 03:22:04 PM by AbyssUnderground »

DamonHD

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2011, 10:04:59 AM »
Hi,

I'm raising this thread from the grave as I can't quite find the right old thread.

I upgraded my system a while ago from an ageing 40Ah gel to about 400Ah of new gel batteries.

I had been wondering whether the 40Ah was generally kaput, but having put it to one side fully charged six weeks ago with a Voc of ~13.2V it has held that voltage so today I paralleled it with the new 400Ah set.

However, in order to minimise the strain on the little old battery I've wired it up direct to the controller rather than to the other batteries, and through a circuit that I hope will be slightly higher impedance than the connections to the 400Ah, viz: a longer thinner cable and a self-resetting thermal fuse.

I used a variant on the RossW "wait for the mountain to come to you" technique to help get the batteries within a few tenths of a volt before wiring everything together.

I'll keep an eye on it for any signs of anything obviously going wrong.

Rgds

Damon
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Bruce S

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 03:37:48 PM »
Damon;
 I can atest to the fact that the light bulb safety thing TomW wrote about works. I built a little bulb thingy to introduce new NiCd packs to my solar banks after the sun goes down and the circuit no longer shows charging. I'm using 12ga stranded wire to make all my connections and by doing his little trick using a turn signal light as the surge arrester I've not even had the spark when connecting it to the system for the first time.
Best of luck!
Bruce S
 
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DamonHD

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 06:17:43 PM »
House hasn't burnt down so far...  B^>

Rgds

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Bruce S

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 09:32:46 AM »
That's really good to know  ;D
Cheers;
Bruce S
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taylorp035

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 05:25:10 PM »
Quote
Surging isn't a problem. When it comes to jump starting your car, what do you do? You connect a good battery to a flat one. Lots of voltage difference there. When you connect it, yes you may get a spark, but the voltage quickly rises in the dead battery meaning the surge is so quick it wouldn't affect anything. You may get an initial surge of hundreds of amps but its so quick (milliseconds) its not a problem for decently sized cable. Seconds later is down to under 100A.

The E38 BMW 750's had two different sized Pb batteries in them (110 ah and 55ah IRCC).  Considering the large electrical loads in a fancy car with a v12 engine and electric catalytic converter, the batteries held up fine.  In a house, I would think that they would be just the same.  The E31 8 series has two 110 ah batteries.... ;D








Slingshot

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2011, 05:01:36 PM »
Everything should be fine once connected.  The main thing you have to worry about is charge transfer at the moment you first hook them together. 

If they are not at the same potential, heavy current may be passed from the one more highly charged to the one more discharged.  To avoid this, make sure that they are both float-charged to the same voltage (14.0, 13.6, it doesn't matter, just make sure they are the same) and then hook them together. 

Once this is accomplished, they should share current according to their relative capacities, in both charge and discharge modes, because they are identical chemistry and will be forced to have the same terminal voltage.

DamonHD

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Re: Paralleling (gel) SLAs of different Ah sizes
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2011, 05:52:11 PM »
So far as I can tell everything has being playing nicely together.  Let's see how I get on through the winter...

Rgds

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