Author Topic: Do these specs look OK  (Read 1277 times)

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frackers

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Do these specs look OK
« on: September 03, 2008, 09:31:55 AM »
I've got what I think is the specs for my batteries - can someone (Flux?) check what I've transcribed to see if they look reasonable?


Following discharge, constant current charge the CR-165 battery at 20 amperes until the battery voltage measures 2.42 volts per cell (9.68 volts open circuit voltage).


The constant voltage charge phase begins after the gassing point (2.42 VPC) is achieved. During the constant voltage phase, the charger current voltage limit is regulated to the gassing point of 2.42 volts per cell, while the input current is allowed to gradually fall off. When the input current drops to the finish rate setting of 6 amperes, the charging phase will change from constant voltage to a sustained 6 ampere constant current mode. The charging cycle will be terminated 3.5 to 5 hours from the gassing point, with factors such as ambient temperature, battery condition and depth of discharge affecting the charge completion time.


The CR-165 battery should receive a full recharge following the completion of each discharge, along with a weekly equalization service charge. During the equalization charge cycle the finish rate charge time is extended by 3 hours (6.5 to 8 hours from the gassing point).


The charge factor of the standard recharge should be equal to or greater that 1.07 (107%). The charge factor of the equalization cycle should be equal to to greater than 1.15 (115%).




+------------------------------+---------------------+

| Nominal Voltage              |  6 volts            |

+------------------------------+---------------------+

| Amp Hour capactity           | 225 (C20) 171 (C5)  |

+------------------------------+---------------------+

| Reserve capacity Minutes     | 115 @ 75 Amperes    |

+--------------+---------------+----------+----------+

|              |  Length       | 10.25"   |  260mm   |

+              +---------------+----------+----------+

|  Physical    |  Width        | 7.125"   |  161mm   |

+ Character    +---------------+----------+----------+

|   -istics    |  Height       | 10.5"    |  267mm   |

+              +---------------+----------+----------+

|              |  Wet Weight   | 64lbs    |  29kg    |

+--------------+---------------+----------+----------+


+------------------------------+---------------------+

|              | 20 Hour Rate  |  11.25 A | 225 Ah   |

+              +---------------+----------+----------+

| Amp Hour     | 10 Hour Rate  |  20.20 A | 202 Ah   |

+ Capacity     +---------------+----------+----------+

|              |  5 Hour Rate  |  34.20 A | 171 Ah   |

+              +---------------+----------+----------+

|              |  2 Hour Rate  |  65.20 A | 131 Ah   |

+--------------+---------------+----------+----------+

| Internal     |    80 F       |   27C    | 4.9 mOhm |

|  Resistance  |               |          |          |

+--------------+---------------+----------+----------+

| Capacity     |   104 F       |   40 C   |  102%    |

+ affected by  +---------------+----------+----------+

| Temperature  |    80 F       |   27 C   |  100%    |

+ (20Ah Rate)  +---------------+----------+----------+

|              |    32 F       |    0 C   |   65%    |

+--------------+---------------+----------+----------+


The above table may look odd - I can't find a "preformatted" tag with this forum software...

« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 09:31:55 AM by (unknown) »
Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

Flux

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Re: Do these specs look OK
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 07:39:55 AM »
I take it that these are 8v units.


Those figures look typical. I am not sure how you do this sort of thing in real life with a normal system subjected to charge and discharge. I have never had the luxury of discharging batteries then charging them under ideal conditions.


If you have enough solar to supply the load and maintain the ideal charging conditions I suppose you can get close but recent history mucks up all the voltages.


My attitude is do best you can most of the time then equalise often enough to keep the batteries in step.


Flux

« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 07:39:55 AM by Flux »

frackers

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Re: Do these specs look OK
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 06:22:04 PM »
Not 8 but 6 volts. Each cell is taken up to 2.42volts which is one of the reasons I was questioning whether I may have extraneous info on this FAX that has nothing to do with the basic specs of the batteries.


Not sure what you mean about 'recent history'. These are new batteries (as of 3 weeks ago) on my wind system. They were tickled along for a couple of weeks with minimal charge/discharge but have now had 2 discharges to about 70% capacity - currently waiting for the wind to bring them back up again (as is always the way!!).

« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 06:22:04 PM by frackers »
Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

Flux

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Re: Do these specs look OK
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 09:30:51 PM »
"Following discharge, constant current charge the CR-165 battery at 20 amperes until the battery voltage measures 2.42 volts per cell (9.68 volts open circuit voltage)."


Sorry I see from the fax that it said 6v. This doesn't square with the 9.68v that you quote . For 6v the figure should be 7.26v for 3 cells at 2.42v.


Manufacturers give charge details based on the assumption that you charge them in one go with no discharge taking place at the time. They normally give details of a bulk charge, then an absorption phase at constant voltage and when the current drops to a certain level they consider it fully charged and normally drop to a lower float charge to maintain the state.


What I meant about recent history was that if you have charging and discharging going on together as in any normal active system, the charge algorithms are completely messed up. It is far more difficult to decide on the state of charge. Various controllers have different approaches to this, none of which I think get that close to the ideal but we have to live with it.


For normal operation the best you can reasonably do is get the things charged through the bulk phase as quickly as your input will allow, The longer they stay discharged the more likely they are to sulphate. You can't rush the final stage and it is in this final stage that the previous charge/discharge history messes up your prospects of deciding the point at which they are finally charged.


With wind there are often far from ideal conditions. If you discharge to 70% then it would be nice to get them back to less than 50% discharge quickly but if there is no wind for a week this is something you have to live with.


The data in the fax looks normal.Those batteries seem to be 220Ah at C20 rate. If you are pulling significant current with inverters they will be way below this. At typical inverter loads that many use you may be down to the 130Ah figure for 2 hour discharge if you continue loading at that rate.


Flux

« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 09:30:51 PM by Flux »

frackers

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Re: Do these specs look OK
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2008, 05:00:09 AM »
Hmm - if I'd applied some simple arithmetic I'd have seen that the 9.68 volts wasn't possible. Looks like the FAX I have was sent with another sheet of paper stuck to the top of it with details of a completely different battery to the ones I have. The tables giving the other characteristics look OK though.


Having already seen over 30volts with the 8 series/parallel connected ones I have, and they were not gassing very much at that, I'm reasonably happy with my top charge voltage of 28.5 as even if the 2.42 volts per cell does apply to the batteries I have the resultant 29.04 volts is just a bit too close to the 30 volt max of the inverter for my liking!!


I'll be monitoring SG in the mean time until I have the proper monitoring and charge controller installed. Now I know how I'm going to be building that then it won't take too long (less time than the 18 months to get the mill into the air anyway!!)

« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 05:00:09 AM by frackers »
Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)