Author Topic: Newbe Question (pumps )  (Read 3019 times)

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Lamewolf

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Newbe Question (pumps )
« on: July 10, 2008, 04:11:23 PM »
  I have been looking for a inverter with little luck , i have a 220 volt submersed well pump (at 80 feet ) and i am looking for a 24 volt DC  to 220 volt AC inverter , all i can find are European types with the wrong cycles / Hertz.

 I can manage without the comforts of life but not without water , is there such a inverter ? or would i be better to pull the pump and fit a 110 unit , i have seen the DC submersable pumps but i can buy 2. 110 / 220 volt pumps  for the same price . so a inverter and a spare AC pump seem to be the  most cost efective way to go .
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 04:11:23 PM by (unknown) »

SparWeb

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2008, 12:22:06 PM »
Some catalogs to browse thru:


http://www.alt-energy.com/catPDFs/low/09-Inverters-low.pdf

http://www.xantrex.com/products.asp

http://www.outbackpower.com/products/

http://www.magnumenergy.com/productsinverter.htm


Gotta watch what you type when you so searches.  220V is "european" single-phase, 240V is "american" two-phase, common residential service.


I've had the same problem, talking to people who are ignorant of the difference, and then they read through international catalogs...  The new guy in customer service at some places just picks stuff from a list, and the trouble begins...

« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 12:22:06 PM by SparWeb »
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spinningmagnets

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2008, 03:27:50 PM »
What volume of water to you need per week? There may be other options worth considering.


The fairly solid disc fan with many small blades has been used to cycle a sucker pump, used for cattle troughs and steam railroad water towers with some success. Easy to replace piston seals when they wear out.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 03:27:50 PM by spinningmagnets »

dnix71

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2008, 04:38:59 PM »
At 80 feet, you don't have many choices. You have to pump, you can't lift water that high.

http://www.azrenewable.com/wp_faq.html


I don't know if there are small versions of this, but a spiral pump doesn't take much power.

http://lurkertech.com/water/pump/tailer/


To guarantee water in the short run, maybe a large tank and a small generator to run the pump would be the safe choice. If you can store a weeks' worth of water, and something fails, you have time to deal with it.


This place isn't cheap, but they do have the goods for someone way off the grid. http://www.backwoodssolar.com/catalog/pumps.htm

« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 04:38:59 PM by dnix71 »

scottsAI

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 10:13:00 PM »
Lamewolf,


More details are need to help you the best.


For example; well is 64 feet, pump is at 54 feet. (1/2hp 220vac 60hz)

Well water level is 8 feet below well top. (important)


From down in the basement (down 5 feet) pumped water using a 12v RV pump taking a hot shower during the last power outage and flush the toilet!!


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 10:13:00 PM by scottsAI »

erne

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 07:24:22 AM »
get a trace 240 transformer....avout $200...erne
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 07:24:22 AM by erne »

domeguy

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2008, 12:38:45 PM »
I agree, I've had a Trace (Xantrex) 4024 inverter with autotransformer for a few years now.  Some people put the autotransformer directly on to the pump wires, if they only need 120VAC for the rest of the system.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 12:38:45 PM by domeguy »

Lamewolf

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2008, 08:53:15 AM »
  (sorry i have not posted earlier the   Puters moniter died )


More info

  the well is a 4 inch  drilled 100 feet, with water at 60 feet and the pump at 80 feet , the pump is a 2/3 rds horse ( imho overkill but it's what the property came with and a 80 gallon presure tank ) i would love a wind pump but the well is directly under the house power cables ( a pump jack would be feasable after felling a few trees ), I have a 1 acre garden to water in N central TX , I have a 3000 gallon sealed ( not open top )tank hooked up with a ball valve to the well for stock watering ,

  we are a long way away from the main grid and power outages are regular ( trees touching )so a back up system ( preserably solar as i have a small 24 volt system and a FL battery bank  ) seems a good way to go here in TX

« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 08:53:15 AM by Lamewolf »

spinningmagnets

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2008, 11:04:46 AM »
As I now understand it, you have 40' of standing water sitting at the bottom of a 100' well, with power lines overhead. Current pump inlet 80' down.


Making a committment to a sucker pump is somewhat expensive, even if half the system is scrounged, so I don't suggest running out and spending any money without first studying the entire cost of a comprehensive plan.


If you install a sucker pump, the top can be cycled by a rocking beam. If an adjustable counter-weight is mounted on the other side of beam that is equal to the loaded water side, the beam can be cycled with very little effort.


At this point, the beam can be cycled by a rod-and-crankshaft turned by wind or a DC motor. My first choice for a rocking beam support would be placing it at the top of two side-by-side A-frames. Because of the overhead power lines, the beam could have a "V" brace mounted to its underside betwen the a-frames. If the rod was attached to the lower tip of the V-Brace, it would allow a horizontal rod to cycle near the ground.


I worked at the Burbank landfill. Its an older "moist" landfill, and trash decay produced significant methane. The city installed vertical wells to draw out the smelly swamp gas and burn it off (flaring). Someone got a federal grant to install V-16 locomotive diesel generators with sparking added to make some electricity from this waste.


Percolating ground water filled the bottoms of the wells and restricted drawing up the now-desireable gas. Sucker pumps were installed (200+ feet deep) so via a cycling cable (fiberglas) a column of water was lifted to an aboveground sideways pipe "T", where the water flowed horizontal to a storage tank (don't ask how it smelled!).


On that application a single-acting air cylinder pulled the cable up about six inches. When the air-piston reached the top (top was open, air pressure was under the piston on the pulling rod end) an exhaust valve was tripped, and the air-piston fell from the weight of the fiberglas rod and water-piston. The bottom exhaust was snubbed to soften the landing, triggering the air lifting supply again.


I got them to add oilers to the air-supply lines, so the air piston seals lasted much longer. The trashy water ate up the water piston seals, so when a well slowed production (~once a month, running 24/7), it was scheduled for me to pull the water piston, and swap it with an identical piston with new seals.


Another idea...I don't know if this would work for you, but I have seen systems with several centrifugal pumps stacked, meaning that the outlet of the lower one feeds the inlet of the next one up. This is how the local city water, and the submarine I was on did it. Might require 3 pumps or more to lift 80 feet, might not be worth it, even if it does work.


Just some ideas to kick around...

« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 11:04:46 AM by spinningmagnets »

Lamewolf

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2008, 08:53:09 PM »
  Rocker beams are ten a penny round here ( well dirt cheap scrap steel price ) left over from oil stripper wells and there are a lot of old aeromotor wind pumps lying round in fields ,(would need some repair) with posibly a  pump at the botom of the hole underneath them, , counterbalencing the rocker beam should cancel out the weight of the water on top of the pump ?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 08:53:09 PM by Lamewolf »

Lamewolf

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Re: Newbe Question (pumps )
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2008, 12:04:22 PM »
  Thanks for all the Ideas/ information  .

    i still think that a inverter is the easiest way to go , finding a effiecent 24 volt motor  to power a rocking beam would be a problem and pulling a well pump to fit a jack pump aint going to be easy , fiting a inverter to the system i allready have and adding another pannel IMHO is simpler
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 12:04:22 PM by Lamewolf »