has any one installed a reverse osmosis system

[getterdone]

has any one had experience with a small system for drinking?
i seen one at farm/and/fleet store for $157.oo.
it's a under sink mod.
i think i will buy one, but first wanted to see what you all think.
i'm catching rain water from the roof of my metal roof for my water supply.
drilling a well will cost $8000.00 in my area.
the last rain storm i collected 900gals. in a little over a hour,thats with only 40 ft 0f guttering.
i need to add 10 more ft. to it to catch that side of the roof.
thats only one side. i plan to add guttering to the other side in the future. the roof i get my water from is my pole barn.
what do you all think?

[pvale]

I'm on city water, but the water here tastes like theyr'e pumping it right out of the river. I found out recently that the city's main well is only 500 yards from the river, and that's probably why. So, I bought a reverse osmosis system. Now, you need a minimum of 40PSI to force water through the reverse osmosis membrane, but it produces more water if the pressure is increase to 60-70PSI. So you are going to need a pressure pump if your captured rainwater is gravity fed or otherwise at low pressure. I have 70PSI city water pressure and the system will make it's 2.5Gal tank full of water in 2 hours.

I added a ultraviolet treatment lamp to the output water feed just to make sure.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/21/15257/8068

Is an earlier post when I was thinking about setting it up. Well, I did it, got some pictures but haven't gotten them little enough to upload them yet.

[scottsAI]

Getterdone,

Rainwater great.

If you live out west make sure you have water rights.

NO to reverse osmosis system.

The last thing you need for rain water is reverse osmosis system.

Yes it can remove many things, not sure if rated or accepted by code for bacteria/virus which is what you need for rain water.

If you dump the first of the rain the water is quite clean, important the roof is metal or tile. Water must be sterilized.

Besides the ultraviolet (UV) consider ozone to sterilize the water.

The UV lamps need replacing yearly, ozone should list decades. Uses less power.

Ozone can sterilize the whole tank, UV just the water flow in or out.

Check out these links for more information:

http://www.arcsa.org/

http://www.harvesth2o.com/

http://www.irc.nl/page/29189

Have fun,

Scott.

[getterdone]

i spent a lot of time going through the information you posted.

the things that interested me most was, first water diversion, and containment building.

good information.  thanks.

i would however like to see pictures of people on the board's projects they have done.

[getterdone]

i 'e' mailed you for those pictures, if you dont mind.

i would sure like to see them.

[scottsAI]

Getterdone,

Saved the best for last:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Water/Water.htm

Otherpower is about wind, not going to get much response on other subjects.

I have read everything linked to above. I would say I am book smart on rainwater.

Cistern when a kid, collect rain to water my batteries.

Not found a water diversion device I like (or willing to pay for), designed my own, which I do not like yet. Love to see anything you can come up with...

I live in Michigan, with a 2000sqft home a 2500gal tank for family of 4.

Sister in NM, would need 5000gal tank, same yearly rain fall. NM has no rain for months.

Made a spread sheet to calculate tank size based on monthly rain fall. I used the low numbers to calculate, not willing to run out of water!

Found plastic tanks for 2500 gal cost $1000 or so with shipping.

Ebay item 250237686170

Then came across the idea of digging a hole or a wood tank.

Line it with EPDM pond liner (60mil) about $1sqft, much less $ then the tank.

May be a problem for code and flooding considerations. So have top above ground.

Need a cover. How about a deck? Same idea works for solar heated tank.

Estimated it would cost $2k to use rain to replace a $8k well. Looks like a good deal, gave me the $ needed to do solar heating! Got laid off, building is on hold.

I can drive a shallow well for few hundred $, use for watering lawn.

Have fun,

Scott.

[snowcrow]

 This is what I've been looking at for filtering and UV of my roof collection system. They offer 12v systems for RV and marine use.  They may do 24v on request.

It operates at 20 to 75psi

http://www.puritec.com/store/category.cfm?Category=76

Blessings, Snow Crow

[phil b]

Getterdone,

Using ozone is a cheap and inexpensive way to kill the bacteria and most viruses.

There is a cheaper way that most public water supplies in the US use. Chlorine.

Also, when private wells are tested and lab test indicate there is bacteria in the sample, bleach is normally recomended for treatment.

You can buy a gallon of bleach at just about any grocery store. Get the cheapest, unscented stuff you can find. If you are concerned about putting too much bleach in, buy a chlorine test kit made for swimming pools.

You can email me if you have additional questions or I will post here. I can get you or anyone all the info they need. BTW, I'm not trying to toot my own horn but I do have a lot of experience in the water/wastewater field.

Hope this helps.

Phil

[thefinis]

I spent most of my life either catching rain water or around folks that were. No to the R/O unit it will waste water and unless you have a factory etc close by that is emitting something bad into the air that an r/o unit will remove it is not needed.

Roof washers (still find that a strange name for water catchers or diverters) are needed for a drinking system. They can be anything from a fancy measured capture system to a valve you turn on and off by hand. A screen or screens to keep most of the big chunks like leaves out pipes and tanks is a real good idea.

If you are using a pressured delivery system then you need a screen filter before the pump. A charcoal filter (taste and chems)and a small/hole size micron filter(dirt or pollen) after the pump or pressure tank. Filtering can be done on just the line/faucet you use for drinking water. I knew of one family that for the first few years filtered their rain water for drinking through a Brita pitcher system. If you are using a gravity flow system then ask your plumbing supply house for suggestions on inline filters or use one of the countertop filtering pitchers.

The two main choices for disinfection (there are others) are UV and chlorine both have their niches. UV on an automated pressure system is great and leaves no residue in the water. This also means that it gives no protection to any of the rest of the system and takes power for the pump and the UV unit. A UV sytem set up for batch disinfection is where you have a UV light that shines in the holding tank for a set amount of time on a set schedule. All the UV systems I have seen were automated. Chlorine is cheap and easy if used as a batch setup but there are many automated chlorine systems out there. It is the main chemical used for public water supply systems. IF you are going to use chlorine(bleach) please be careful and know your math and chemicals. It can be as much of a problem having too much chlorine as not having any. Caution it likes most metals and will eat up a tin tank. It also tends to leave a residue when it combines with organic material. Luckily most of the normal concentrations of chlorine and residues are removed with the charcoal and micron filters. I like a combo setup the best where you have an auto UV and do batch chlorine 2-4 times a year depending on local conditions.

A rain water system can be as easy or fancy as wanted or needed. I grew up with a 55 gal rain barrel that caught water from a roof valley. It was simple and easy. Take the lid off when the water coming off the roof was clear and put it back on when it quit raining. It was what we made coffee, tea or cooked beans with. How good your rain water is depends much on local conditions. How often and what type of rainfall, trees, roof type, dust, pollution in the air from nearby factories and your rain water setup including holding tanks, filters and plumbing all affect water quality.

Enough preaching I did not read the links posted but bet they have all or most of the info I just posted.

Good luck

Finis

[getterdone]

hi, thats not a bad system.,,but i don't think the wife would want this taking up space on the kitchen sink. under the sink would be nice. one problem i have is, the sink is a commercial stanless steel.

no extra holes for mounting any thing. i wonder if my knock out punch will cut the hole needed. pitcher type ,or top of the sink is looking better all the time.

[getterdone]

what is ozone process?

for now i've been just adding bleach about 1/2 cup to 350gal water.

i did not have a way to check how much i was adding though. bad idea i know. i aint dead yet.

[ghurd]

Phil,  You are up wind.  Toot all you want.  :-)

Ozone...  Long story as short as I can.

Off grid aquarium.  Air pump (AC) on when possible. Inverter losses were more than the pump.

So I bought some of the oxyganator things used by fishermen.  They use 1/2 a drop of 12VDC.

But 10 hours later half the fish were dead.

They tell me the tank smelled like ozone, but I don't know what ozone smells like.  Tested it in a 99.9% closed gallon jar for a day, and it almost smells like bleach to me.  Strong smell, whatever it is.

Expensive way to kill fish is all I know.  Don't put one near fish!

Does this thing make ozone?

Seems like a cheap, simple, low power way to do it if it does.

There is an animated gif (), and that is how the bubbles look.  Lots of tiny bubbles, and a few large bubbles.

http://www.keepfishalive.com/index.php

G-

[getterdone]

you guys are great. you have steered me in the right direction.

this board is great!!!!!!      

thanks all of you.

                                 getterdone

                       

[TomW]

G-;

I find ozone and bleach to smell very similar.

We had one of those ionic breeze air purifier things awhile it smelled faintly of bleach while running and it produces ozone.

Wife read online somewhere that ozone was not healthy so its in storage now.

Tom

[spinningmagnets]

Ozone...I do not trust any advertising claims, but here is a university blurb.

http://www.water-research.net/ozone.htm

Short story is: various types of electrical activity (lightning, electric motor running) can produce ozone which is O3.

O3 is very unstable and quickly degrades into an O2 which is very stable, and an O1, which is highly reactive.

The O1 aggressively attaches to iron, sulphur, bacteria, and other water-borne items. This causes the chemicals to form particulates and fall to the bottom of the water tank, or causes the bacteria to die due to reactive cellular damage.

Do not drink ozonated water until it has rested for at least 30 minutes to ensure all O1's have reacted, which typically occurs in less than 15 minutes. Ozonated water should be transferred to a holding tank for at least 30 minutes before being consumed.

As a side note from other research, De-Ionized water has some uses, but drinking it will cause a slow health degradation. When consuming DI water is stopped, health will slowly return with no permanent affects.

When working on large contaminated water filtration systems a long time ago, water was pumped through a large "easy to clean out" sand filter, and then through a large charcoal filter. Activated (baked) charcoal granules are reactive, and will suck up a wide variety of organic and inorganic chemicals.

[getterdone]

if thease things are for live wells, why did your fish die?

[getterdone]

activated [baked].

could i use bricketts as used in charcoal grilling?

[richhagen]

Well, the literature indicates that it gets the oxygen from the water itself.  The basic way to do that is electrolysis.  This gives off two parts hydrogen gas and one part oxygen.  The device would likely have two sets of mesh or wires held at different potentials in close proximity to split the water.  If that is how it works, and there was any sodium chloride or other chlorides dissolved in the water, you would be making a bit of chlorine gas with it as well.  Probably not that good for fish, and thats what gives bleach its smell.  Rich

[spinningmagnets]

I dont know about charcoal bricketts, might be possible...

The activated charcoal we used came in fine thread cloth bags. When water sampling showed the water output chemicals were rising (in parts-per-million/PPM) we would stop and swap out the bags.

I am using the Brita charcoal-filter water pitcher to clean the city water a little for my coffee in the morning. I don't know how much it helps, but it does taste better.

[elvin1949]

getterdone

  Short answer NO   bbq bricketts have chemical

binders in them that would not be good for your health.

  Some where the federal gov. has guidelines and plans online for a cistern filter.seems like i remember it was a 3 stage filter.

 Pea gravel--sand--activated charcoal

It has been a long time,so i don't remember how i found it.

later

Elvin  

[SteveCH]

I installed a R/O last Oct. for our kitchen use. It makes about 3 quarts per minute, uses only a little for flushing. It is supposed to have a membrane with small enough pores to block bacteria [but I would NOT expect it to do the same for a virus, which, I suppose, you could get in the water from bird droppings on that roof]. However, this unit was right at $3000 so is a lot more expensive than the one you've looked at.

The R/O systems depend on charcoal filters for removal of chlorine and like chemicals.

All filters, R/O or any other, need to have the particulate material removed prior to the filter unit. For 20 yr., we used rainwater off a steel roof and stored in a 2200 homemade cistern [concrete block on a concrete pad and lined inside with a cistern liner, which can be ordered custom made from many sources...for our big tank, a new one last yr. ran us $350 I think it was]. You WILL get a lot of dust, dirt, dead plant material, insects, etc. wash off the roof into a cistern or barrel or any other storage. The biggest challenge I had was figuring out a good and efficient way to filter those things out. I ran gutter downspout and elbows into the cistern, from the roof, so the 1st line of defense was simple screen material at the downspouts to block the larger stuff. I had to clean out the gutter and screens every month or so.

Then the water ran through some filter medium I set in a concrete box I built on the side of the cistern, and the water then ran into the cistern from there. Then, our intake line to the house supply, 3/4 inch poly, had a 1 micron screen on it. Then, just before the pressure pump, we have a simple, inline filter to make sure we got everything we could, as any tiny thing in the water can damage those pressure pumps.

Then, we had a carbon-filter unit at the sink with a separate faucet unit for drinking and cooking water from that....like most of those units come with these days.

We had to go to a well last yr. [legal reasons in our state], and just hooked the well line into the cistern and bypassed the old filter stuff as the well water is extremely clean. But, it's hard, so the reverse osmosis system.

I would have stayed with the rainwater/cistern system if at all possible. It does take some labor, regularly, to keep it all clean. Add a little bleach now and then. Sometimes, any system can be overwhelmed in, say, a thunderstorm, so be smarter than me and design yourself a good automatic bypass for when too much rain is falling. I had some real hassles with that.

[phil b]

Ozone is the smell that comes from firing a spark plug, brushes in an electric motor, using a copy machine, air purifiers like Tom has. Mercury vapor bulbs fired at high voltage are normally used to produce ozone in water systems.

Chlorine bleach is still the cheapest and most effective way to disinfect water. With a swimmimg pool test kit and several gallons of bleach can be bought for 20 dollars or less.

If the smell bothers you, you can buy a carbon filter like the brita stuff from here: http://www.brita.com/index_ca.html after it's disinfected. I suggest disinfecting first because the charcoal/carbon in the brita type filters can harbor a good colony of bacteria, so your back to square one.

Sorry for taking so long to reply but I hope this helps,

Phil

[tanner0441]

Hi

 I live in the UK (North Wales)the drinking water smells like it came from a swimming pool so much chlorine, so I fitted two small filters under the sink, about 2 inches dia and 9 inches long, the first one is a micro porus ceramic filter removes particles and all the lepto type spores and cysts, the second one is a carbon block filter.  Carbon block offeres a greater surface area than particles. the complete set up including a small tap was around £50 the water is a good as any bottled water and therre is no chlorine, chlorine has been linked to colon cancer so best avoided.

Brian..